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OT: Information Needed From Christians
This thread has 86 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:02
davidcasemore
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I am an atheist and I don't really understand christian doctrine very well. I was hoping for a clarification from any christians here regarding the election results.

Governor Sarah Palin said that she was "praying" for a victory in the election. I have also heard comments attributed to her regarding "gods will" on topics such as our invasion of Iraq. I think most people are aware of her stance on abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, and a host of other social issues.

I also believe most people would agree that Senator Barack Obama holds views that could best be described as "opposite" of Governor Palins. In addition, I thoroughly believe (rumors of his being a muslim notwithstanding) that Barack Obama worships the same god as Sarah Palin does.

So my question is this; If Barack Obama's and Sarah Palin's god exists, and she prayed to him for a victory but lost to Barack Obama, does it stand to reason that this god takes the view on these social issues that more closely reflect the views of Barack Obama?

And if that is indeed the case, should governor Palin change her views on these issues to align herself with the god that she so obviously has misunderstood? Should she denounce this god? Pray louder next time? Denounce the platform of the republican party? Become a democrat?

Should all christians become democrats? Is it part of god's plan to redistribute the wealth? Is this god against offshore drilling, too?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to explain exactly how christianity works in a case like this one.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 2 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:22
GLS
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Believe it or not, that is a really good question, and a deeper one than you realize. That is a question that gets asked a lot, I have no idea how many books have been written on the subject, and I will honestly be willing to talk about it.

Fact of the matter is, God is not a slot-machine, He is not manipulated by us though we may think we can, and His plan for life and the world is beyond our comprehension. "My thoughts are not your thoughts" He says in scripture. So while many people were praying, the Lord does as He sees fit, because He sees outside of time,He sees the bigger picture. Did Obama win because God endorses him, or is Obama the punishment we get for not doing what we should? I don't know. I doubt either, actually. You are forgetting freewill. God allows us to act rightly or wrongly, and He wants us to choose the right without being forced or rewarded like trained dogs. Whatever happens from this point on will be the result of that freewill. I can pray for an outcome of anything, but sometimes the answer is "no" or "not now" or
"keeping praying" or "trust Me." God's plans are bigger than mine or yours, and He will accomplish those plans no matter what. I know however that His plans are are not designed to hurt me, but to prosper and grow me because He loves me, and ultimately will welcome me home to be with Him for eternity.

I have more to say, but a customer called, I have to go. Hold that thought.
www.GordonsLight.com
"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" Proverbs 27:17
Post 3 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:35
CoryBurgess
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On November 5, 2008 at 14:22, GLS said...

... You are
forgetting freewill.

I'm not dedicated to any specific religion, and definitely don't know enough about christian beliefs.

But I think that this hits it on the nose. If God gave us free will, than while he may see the bigger picture, it is still in our hands to make the choices that we all live by and live with. God will then judge you and your decisions when the time is right.
Cory
"you like our booties? Oh, you must mean the shoe covers."
Post 4 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:49
QQQ
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On November 5, 2008 at 14:22, GLS said...
Believe it or not, that is a really good question, and
a deeper one than you realize. That is a question that
gets asked a lot, I have no idea how many books have been
written on the subject, and I will honestly be willing
to talk about it.

Fact of the matter is, God is not a slot-machine, He is
not manipulated by us though we may think we can, and
His plan for life and the world is beyond our comprehension.
"My thoughts are not your thoughts" He says in scripture.
So while many people were praying, the Lord does as He
sees fit, because He sees outside of time,He sees the
bigger picture. Did Obama win because God endorses him,
or is Obama the punishment we get for not doing what we
should? I don't know. I doubt either, actually. You are
forgetting freewill. God allows us to act rightly or wrongly,
and He wants us to choose the right without being forced
or rewarded like trained dogs. Whatever happens from this
point on will be the result of that freewill. I can pray
for an outcome of anything, but sometimes the answer is
"no" or "not now" or

"keeping praying" or "trust Me." God's plans are bigger
than mine or yours, and He will accomplish those plans
no matter what.

Sounds like you got it all covered there.

1. It could be God's will.
2. It could be God's punishment.
3. It could be our will.

I know however that His plans are are
not designed to hurt me, but to prosper and grow me because
He loves me, and ultimately will welcome me home to be
with Him for eternity.

Unless you don't belong to the right church or religion and then I assume he burns you in hell for eternity with lots of gnashing and grinding of teeth?
Post 5 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:53
QQQ
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BTW, someone just sent me a link to this thread and I clicked on it and responded thinking it was in one of the (already) political threads so I responded. Only after exiting did I notice that it's dedicated to this topic. Was it really necessary to incite people further by starting another thread on this?
Post 6 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:55
AACTrent
Audio Authority Corp.
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I'd love to get in on this discussion, but considering how heated Blu-ray discussions get, I'd better stay away from religion while posting under my work name!
Trent Davis
Product Manager
www.audioauthority.com
Post 7 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 14:59
mcn779
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Unless you don't belong to the right church or religion
and then I assume he burns you in hell for eternity with
lots of gnashing and grinding of teeth?

Wrong the church and religion are creations of man not God. And anytime man has an "agenda" he can and will find away to distort the truth even with the best intentions.
OP | Post 8 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 15:18
davidcasemore
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On November 5, 2008 at 14:53, QQQ said...
BTW, someone just sent me a link to this thread and I
clicked on it and responded thinking it was in one of
the (already) political threads so I responded.
Only after exiting did I notice that it's dedicated to this
topic. Was it really necessary to incite people further
by starting another thread on this?

The Biden thread? Yes, it was necessary because it's a completely different topic! (see your own statement above where you say "... dedicated to this topic").

And incite people? What are you talking about? I'm trying to educate myself by getting answers to some things I find extremely perplexing. So far, the very first response was by somebody making an effort to do just that. Unfortunately his response sounds like a response better fitted to a believer than a non-believer. I'm looking for an explanation outlining church doctrine that explains what a christian is to do in this scenario.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
OP | Post 9 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 15:22
davidcasemore
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On November 5, 2008 at 14:59, mcn779 said...
Wrong the church and religion are creations of man not
God.

Again, forgive my ignorance regarding christianity. I was under the impression that Jesus started the church and appointed the first pope (Peter? At least that's the impression I got from a South Park episode).

Are you saying that Jesus was just a man and not god?
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 10 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 15:22
mcn779
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is to do in this scenario.

In what scenario? Not trying to be obtuse just want to make sure of what you want and answer too.
Post 11 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 15:29
mcn779
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Simon is the person and Jesus called him "cephas" (Aramaic) in Greek (Petros) meaning rock but not as in a name and than from Petros to Peter. Simon (Peter) was obstinate - to but it mildly - and both ways for the positive and the negative. But he was never named pope by Jesus.
OP | Post 12 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 15:39
davidcasemore
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On November 5, 2008 at 15:29, mcn779 said...
Simon is the person and Jesus called him "cephas" (Aramaic)
in Greek (Petros) meaning rock but not as in a name and
than from Petros to Peter. Simon (Peter) was obstinate
- to but it mildly - and both ways for the positive and
the negative. But he was never named pope by Jesus.

Thanks. I think. I mean, was Peter the first pope or not? Was he made the pope retroactively after he died? What was he obstinate about? Is this where the phrase "Simon says" comes from?
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 13 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 15:54
mcn779
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Don't know about the "Simon says" - good question. He was never named the pope by Jesus if that answer your question. Jesus tells Peter: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church." Simon had very strong conviction some of them wrong.
Post 14 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 16:01
39 Cent Stamp
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My sister prayed for her house all the way up until the bank took it back from her. I remember her telling me god gave her the house. I wonder if god took it away or if it was the bank or if the bank is god.

Or.. Maybe she got the house on her own and lost it on her own. She would have to take responsibility for her actions for this theory to work so for now were blaming it on the devil and calling it a lesson from god.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 15 made on Wednesday November 5, 2008 at 16:09
mcn779
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On November 5, 2008 at 16:01, 39 Cent Stamp said...
My sister prayed for her house all the way up until the
bank took it back from her. I remember her telling me
god gave her the house. I wonder if god took it away or
if it was the bank or if the bank is god.

Or.. Maybe she got the house on her own and lost it on
her own. She would have to take responsibility for her
actions for this theory to work so for now were blaming
it on the devil and calling it a lesson from god.

Our belief does not mitigate our personal responsibilty. Since we can't see the big picture it is hard to say but we are told this Romans 8:28 International Standard Version (2008) And we know that for those who love God, that is, for those who are called according to his purpose, all things are working together for good.
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