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NASCAR ... why?
This thread has 15 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Saturday February 16, 2008 at 10:51
Jay In Chicago
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I wish it were less about the driver and more about the eingineering capailities and imagination of the crew.

Give me a less regulated chalenge every day of the week.

I went to SEMA and checked out the new car.. Nice..

Just not for me.
Jet Rack ... It's what's for breakfast
Post 2 made on Saturday February 16, 2008 at 12:51
Mr. Stanley
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I quit watching years ago... all the cars are the same. Just fake fiberglass skins over tubular frames --- all engineered to the point to where they are all about equal.

I loved watching the slightly modified Fords, Chevs, Pontiacs etc. battling it out.
Now it's all a bunch of phonies driving fake assed cars & it is just boring as hell.

Fireball Roberts, he was the man when I was a kid.
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 3 made on Tuesday February 19, 2008 at 13:53
Sc0tty
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Yes and no Jay. I do think Nascar has become more about faces, and the marketing machine that drives them, but I like the idea of finding out who the best driver is. For the last few years Nascar has become a glorified IROC competition. They have forced the crews to become cheats to claim an advantage reguardless of who was driving the car. I think with some of the rule changes they have put an imphasis on the drivers actual ability. I don't care how a car tests in the wind tunnel, but I like seeing Kyle Busch fly all over the track weaving in and out, and having his own team mate tell him to chill out. That was hilarious to me..

The NAtionwide series is still using last years cars, and that race this past weekend was B O R I N G!!!!. Nobody passed anyone. It was 300 miles of follow the leader. The Sprint race however had a ton of lead changes, and good banging, and bumping. I'll be interested to see how this all will play out on some of the smaller tracks though..
I long for a better world. One in which a chickens motives will not be questioned when mearly crossing the road.
Post 4 made on Tuesday February 19, 2008 at 15:27
djy
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On February 19, 2008 at 13:53, Sc0tty said...
The NAtionwide series is still using last years cars,
and that race this past weekend was B O R I N G!!!!. Nobody
passed anyone. It was 300 miles of follow the leader.

A bit like F1 then.
Post 5 made on Wednesday February 20, 2008 at 06:58
GregoriusM
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Personally, I LIKE that it is more about the drivers and less about the technology.

That is one reason why I dislike F1 racing. Too much technology. Thank goodness they at least decided to take traction control off of the cars.

At least the "stock" cars in NASCAR WILL spin out if you punch the gas too hard. There won't be some computer-based traction control to help out the driver.

Again, that's why I like NASCAR, and the new car. More emphasis on the driver and less on the machinery.

IMHO.

Have a great day!
When ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.
OP | Post 6 made on Wednesday February 20, 2008 at 08:21
Jay In Chicago
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well, then let the driver just do a nice crossword puzzle and forgo the whole team effort.

The technology is in everything... not just traction control.

I'd like to see what the crews and master mechanics can come up with at that level of racing. Talk about creation of innovation.
Jet Rack ... It's what's for breakfast
Post 7 made on Wednesday February 20, 2008 at 12:49
Sc0tty
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So you are not opposed to sitting down to watch something if you already know the outcome? If advancement in technology is the only thing seperating a good, and bad team, then the guy with the most gold wins every time.
I long for a better world. One in which a chickens motives will not be questioned when mearly crossing the road.
Post 8 made on Wednesday February 20, 2008 at 16:26
GregoriusM
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What Sc0tty said. Not what Jay said.

If it's all about technology, make a car that can go 400 miles an hour around the track without a driver.

Kind of takes the fun out of the whole thing, IMHO.
When ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.
Post 9 made on Wednesday February 20, 2008 at 17:23
djy
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On February 20, 2008 at 12:49, Sc0tty said...
. . . then
the guy with the most gold wins every time.

In a technology driven sport (if you'll forgive the unintentional pun) that's always going to be the most likely outcome.

A few months back I was watching a programme about The Americas Cup. It would seem that whereas 10-20 years ago one needed the backing of a millionaire to win, today's boats require a billionaire.
Post 10 made on Wednesday February 20, 2008 at 18:58
Anthony
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So you are not opposed to sitting down to watch something if you already know the outcome? If advancement in technology is the only thing seperating a good, and bad team, then the guy with the most gold wins every time.

even though I agree that it should not only be about the car. (I think it should be even driver, car and team), the reality is that more money can just as easily buy better engineers, mechanics, parts and drivers. there will always be unknowns, and more money (and good decisions) will almost always help.
...
OP | Post 11 made on Thursday February 21, 2008 at 05:39
Jay In Chicago
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I'd like to think it's the team with the best brains that wins. If money buys brains, then what is a brain worth in the first place? zero
Jet Rack ... It's what's for breakfast
Post 12 made on Thursday February 21, 2008 at 10:22
Sc0tty
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In a technology driven sport (if you'll forgive the unintentional
pun) that's always going to be the most likely outcome.


I agree, and that is why Nascar came up with the COT. There are VERY strict rules and regulations on what can go into the car's design, but they have put more adjustment possibilities into the setup. The goal is to make the cars as similair as possible, to take the money side out of it as much as possible, but to give the crew, the chief, and the engine builder the ability to give the driver what he wants or needs to win. In theory it gives us what we are all looking for.

I look at it this way. The last 4 years if your team was not backed by someone named Hendrick, Gibbs or Roush you had little chance of winning. Until Dayton this year Penske had one what..one or two races in the last 3 years? I would be willing to bet that you may see some other owners compete a little more this year. Obviously the best drivers are still with the big 3, but I think the playing field is being leveled a bit, and put more in the hands of the mechanic, crew chiefs, and drivers, than the guy with the pocket protecters, and tape on this glasses.
I long for a better world. One in which a chickens motives will not be questioned when mearly crossing the road.
Post 13 made on Thursday February 21, 2008 at 12:27
djy
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On February 21, 2008 at 10:22, Sc0tty said...
I agree, and that is why Nascar came up with the COT.
There are VERY strict rules and regulations on what can
go into the car's design, but they have put more adjustment
possibilities into the setup.

It'll be interesting to see the outcome, but from the F1 experience (The FIA have been shuffling rules around for years) I doubt it will give the teams with lower budgets much in the way of assistance.
Post 14 made on Thursday February 21, 2008 at 12:48
Sc0tty
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By regulating what you can do on the car though it eliminates a lot of R&D that some of the more cash-strapped teams just could not afford to do. They would always talk about .." well this car Joe Blow is driving was bought from the Roush fleet." Why do you think Roush would sell a competitor a car? Beacuse his millions spent on R&D showed he could build something better. Now they all start with something very similair.
I long for a better world. One in which a chickens motives will not be questioned when mearly crossing the road.
Post 15 made on Thursday February 21, 2008 at 12:52
djy
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As a matter of interest (or not, as the case may be) . . .

An excerpt from the 2008 F1 Technical Regulations 21st January 2008.


3.17 Bodywork flexibility:

3.17.1
Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 700mm forward of the front wheel centre line and 625mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter 300mm long and 150mm wide. Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

3.17.2
Bodywork may deflect no more than 10mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 450mm forward of the rear wheel centre line and 650mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter of the same size. Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

3.17.3
Bodywork may deflect by no more than one degree horizontally when a load of 1000N is applied simultaneously to its extremities in a rearward direction 780mm above the reference plane and 20mm forward of the rear wheel centre line.

3.17.4
Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 2000N load is applied vertically to it at a point which lies on the car centre line and 380mm rearward of the front wheel centre line. The load will be applied in an upward direction using a 50mm diameter ram.

3.17.5
The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 800mm above the reference plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 250mm either side of it. The loads will be applied in a rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the relevant team.

3.17.6
The forward-most aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line and which lies more than 600mm above the reference plane may deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically. The load will be applied in line with the trailing edge of the element at any point across its width. The loads will be applied using a suitable adapter, supplied by the relevant team, which:
  • - may be no more than 50mm wide;

  • - which extends no more than 10mm forward of the trailing edge;

  • - incorporates an 8mm female thread in the underside.


3.17.7
Bodywork may deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 500N load is applied simultaneously to each side of it 200mm behind the rear wheel centre line, 450mm from the car centre line and 820mm above the reference plane. The deflection will be measured at the outer extremities of the bodywork at a point 345mm behind the rear wheel centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction through pads measuring 200mm x 100mm which conform to the shape of the bodywork beneath them, and with their uppermost horizontal surface 820mm above thereference plane. The load will be applied to the centre of area of the pads. Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

3.17.8 In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.15 are respected, the FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.
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