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Topic:
PS3 HD audio capable?
This thread has 32 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Wednesday February 27, 2008 at 19:57
Stealth X
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ok just tested a few movies to see exactly what i'm getting, and the display shows as such-

3:10 to Yuma offers 7.1 PCM audio, and DD Surround EX-

when i opt for 7.1 PCM - my reciever displays PCM, and the PS3 displays Linear PCM, 48khz (this # is the same for every codec), 6.1 mbps

when i opt for DD EX - my reciever displays Digital, PS3 displays DD Multi Channel, 640 kbps

Sunshine offers DTS HD Master Audio, and DD 5.1-

when i opt for DTS HD MA - avr displays DTS, PS3 disp DTS, 1.5 mbps

DD 5.1 - same as DD EX, but at 448 kbps

Spiderman offers Dolby True HD 5.1, and PCM 5.1 Uncompressed-

Dolby True HD - same as DD 5.1 above.

PCM 5.1 Uncomp - AVR disp PCM, PS3 disp Linear PCM, 4.6 mbps



on every title the DD codec sounds inferior IMO.
Post 17 made on Wednesday February 27, 2008 at 20:17
Anthony
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on every title the DD codec sounds inferior IMO.

obviously DD is lossy
...
Post 18 made on Thursday February 28, 2008 at 15:43
Stealth X
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On February 27, 2008 at 20:17, Anthony said...
obviously DD is lossy

how do you mean? i thought "lossy" would be the uncompressed options i mentioned...?
Post 19 made on Thursday February 28, 2008 at 23:05
Daniel Tonks
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how do you mean? i thought "lossy" would be the uncompressed options i mentioned...?

Lossy = loss of quality. Lossless = uncompressed with no quality loss.
Post 20 made on Friday February 29, 2008 at 09:24
Stealth X
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On February 28, 2008 at 23:05, Daniel Tonks said...
Lossy = loss of quality. Lossless = uncompressed with
no quality loss.

aahhhh... and here i thought "lossy" was short for "lossless".

thanks Dan.

edit:so does this mean there are even BETTER sounding codecs than what i'm hearing now??? i cant imagine how it could get better than the lossless! in fact even the DTS i'm getting from the PS3 sounds better than DTS i get from SD-DVD's.

Last edited by Stealth X on February 29, 2008 09:30.
Post 21 made on Friday February 29, 2008 at 19:45
Daniel Tonks
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If your receiver is showing Dolby Digital or DTS, then it's getting lossy sound. However the DTS *is* better than you'll usually get from most DVDs, at the max of 1.5mbit instead of the DVD norm of 768kbit (some DVDs were/are encoded with 1.5mbit DTS tracks, however they were more popular when the DVD format was newer, and the discs almost always lacked any bonus features due to space constraints).
Post 22 made on Saturday March 1, 2008 at 14:56
Anthony
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so does this mean there are even BETTER sounding codecs than what i'm hearing now??? i cant imagine how it could get better than the lossless! in fact even the DTS i'm getting from the PS3 sounds better than DTS i get from SD-DVD's.

PCM is uncompressed (what you see is what you get)

tough question (well at least to explain)

I will brake it down to two parts: CODECs;digitalization

CODECS

PCM: PCM is the uncompressed digital sound

DD: a lossy compression, it is Dolby's old faithfull even though the CODEC was created to go up to 640kb due to DVDs limits on DVD it would max out at 480kbps (so even more lossy then it could be.

DTS: a lossy compression, it is DTSs old faithfull the CODEC has a max of 1.5 mbps, the decoder was created to be extendible (i.e. it can strip info from the newer DTS CODECs

DTS-HD HR: a newer lossy (potentialy lossless)* CODEC from DTS built on top and that uses DTS at it's core, it can have more channels, higher frequency (look at the next section) and a higher bitrate. A DTS decoder can strip out the extra info and just play the core

DD+: a newer lossy CODEC from Dolby built on top and that uses DD at it's core, it can have more channels, higher frequency (look at the next section) and a higher bitrate. Unlike DTS-HR where a DTS decoder can use the DTS core of the DTS-HD dolby is not forward compatible (so if all you have is DD+ on the disk and the player only DD then it won't work), so Dolby decided to modify DD+ for BD where the DD core is seperate from DD+ and DD+ becomes only the extrensions (so every DD+ has a DD companion to go with it) **

DTS-HD MA: it is DTSs compressed lossless CODEC, in theory it should decode to match the original PCM. Note: DTS created the CODEC with an embeded DTS track, if you don't have a DTS-HD MA decoding it will be decoded on a DTS decoder as DTS

DTHD: it is Dolby's compressed lossless CODEC, in theory it should decode to match the original PCM. Note: the same applies here as with DD+, for BD there is a DD companion and the DTHD "file" will just have the extras

* unlike DD+ where the CODEC is inherently lossy (which means loss in the richeness of sound because there is loss in data) because of prefiltering if the BW is high enough then you can in theory get a lossless track from DTS-HD HR something that you can't with the other lossy CODECs (well unless the sound is very clean to begin with)

** this is important, it is the main reason why DD+ was used a lot on HD DVD but has no value on BD, On HD DVD DD was limited like on DVD, so if you want the full richness of DD the studio needed to go with DD+ (and the extra overhead needed) but on BD since the two are seperate there cannot be an empty DD+ file, so the only use is to get more channels (7.1) or higher frequency, two things that don't happen often. Also

digitalization

maybe this should have been first, but your question was about CODECs so I thought it better to start with that. I also thing it important in the discussion of sound quality, so I added it as a second part.

sound is all around us and it is analog. In order to get it digital it must be quantifiable (given discrete values). In order to do this it has two variables

Sampling frequency: the easier explanation is to think of film, how does film work, it is consecutive still images, how often an image is taken (or shown) will affect the final outcome, the same is done with audio most movies will be 48 kHz, but they could sample all the way to 192 kHz (the max for BD). The more samples you have the more true to life the sound will be and the more exact the sound function created by the DAC in your receiver or player.

Bit depth: This is the number of bits associated with each audio sample. If we stick with a video analogy it would be the same as how many colours you can record/show. The usual values are 16 or 24 (with 20 being used a bit, but less often) the more bits you have the smaller the differences you can record (think of slicing a pie, if you slice it into 4 then the least anyone can have is 1/4 and the next size piece is 1/2 but if you slice it in 8 then one person, who wants a sliver, can have 1/8 of a piece and the other person that wants more can have 3/8)

So not all audio is the same even if it is the same CODEC, if one comes from a 16/48 master and an other from a 24/192 the quality wont be the same, and then the CODEC comes into play, so you can get into interesting questions like is 16/48 lossless better then high bitrate 24/96 lossy.

Last edited by Anthony on March 3, 2008 22:39.
...
Post 23 made on Monday March 3, 2008 at 17:41
Stealth X
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On March 1, 2008 at 14:56, Anthony said...
so you can get into interesting questions like
is 16/48 lossless better then high bitrate 24/96 lossy.

very informative post, thanks.

so it sounds like the bottom line is so long as i'm getting lossless PCM i'm getting about the best sound there is...?
OP | Post 24 made on Friday April 11, 2008 at 09:23
smokinghot
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On April 10, 2008 at 11:21, cmckenney said...
According to the PlayStation.Blog, the 2.30 firmware update
will offer gamers DTS-HD Master Audio output for Blu-ray.

[Link: electronichouse.com]
....Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Post 25 made on Friday April 11, 2008 at 10:32
Stealth X
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On April 11, 2008 at 09:23, smokinghot said...

i read that article, i wonder if my it will deocde and then send to my reciever, or do you need a DTS-HD capable AVR?
OP | Post 26 made on Friday April 11, 2008 at 13:28
smokinghot
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On April 11, 2008 at 10:32, Stealth X said...
i read that article, i wonder if my it will deocde and
then send to my reciever, or do you need a DTS-HD capable
AVR?

If I understand correctly.... This firmware will allow the PS3 to pass DTS-HD via HDMI to your AVR or whatever device with the appropriate codecs you're using. HD audio cannot be passed via SPDIF coax/toslink.
....Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Post 27 made on Friday April 11, 2008 at 16:59
Stealth X
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thanks man. trivial of course, but i'm curious how it will display on the front of my AVR... as DTS, or PCM? hmmmm.

also i wonder when the update will be released, i didnt notice a date in the article...?
Post 28 made on Friday April 11, 2008 at 17:24
Adamh4
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On April 11, 2008 at 16:59, Stealth X said...
thanks man. trivial of course, but i'm curious how it
will display on the front of my AVR... as DTS, or PCM?
hmmmm.


also i wonder when the update will be released, i didnt
notice a date in the article...?

The new firmware release is on 15/4/2008 according to this article

[Link: avforums.com]

cheers, Adam.
Post 29 made on Friday April 11, 2008 at 19:44
Daniel Tonks
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It'll be decoded internally to 5.1/7.1 L-PCM (the PS3 cannot pass HD bitstream).
Post 30 made on Sunday April 13, 2008 at 15:20
Anthony
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it will be released on the 15, and no it does not bitstream, it is internal decoding. What your receiver will get is the decoded output (PCM assuming that is what you have it set-up to do) it will not be DTS-HD MA
...
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