Will the PS3 have the ability to transfer the latest and greatest HD lossless audio formats? If not currently, is it something that can be upgraded via firmware?

TIA

From what I hear, it will never support bitstream output (to pass HD audio to a receiver for processing) due to the version of the HDMI chipset used (and the chipset version was not changed in the 40gb model).

However it could decode them internally and pass them out as 7.1 PCM, which is essentially as good. It does this currently for Dolby TrueHD, but does NOT support the same for DTS MA. This *could* be added via a firmware upgrade and is a hotly requested feature by PS3 owners.

i can vouch my receiver shows either PCM or DTS when using the PS3, and both sound far superior to any other sound i'd heard before.

Daniel,
how does the HDMI chipset used, which doesn't allow bitstream output, get digital audio to an A/V receiver as witnessed by Stealth X. Or is Stealth X using a separate digital cable?

The chipset won't do the advanced audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD) but it'll do DVD-grade stuff.

- HDMI (I think all) can (must) pass 7.1 PCM. To pass DTHD and DTS-MA you need HDMI 1.3 (or better) and even then it is up to the manufacturer to have the right chipset sand allow it.
- Digital can only pass 2ch PCM
- analog can pass PCM but it depends on the number of jacks

The PS3 can pass 7.1 PCM over HDMI, it can decode DTHD but not DTS-HD MA (for DTS-HD MA it can either decode or pass the 5.1 DTS core), with Digital and analog it is limited to 2ch PCM

note: since Daniel did say "but it'll do DVD-grade stuff". With DTS it would be the same as DVD, but if you set it up for DD (or even if the disk is DD) you need to realize due to the DVD structure DD was limited to 448 kbps while DD was created with a 640kbps limit. So even at that DD on BD is better then DD on DVD

That's too bad...

Do you think this will be something addressed by Sony in newer generations of the PS3? This seems like something that they won't bother with for sake of their stand alone market.

Now if only the newer chipsets are available when producing the new gen PS3's I guess they won't have a choice. Unless they refuse to provide the firmware to make it possible.

It was speculated before the 40gb redesign came out that maybe they'd update the chip... but they didn't. Anything's possible, but nothing's guaranteed. If they can simply implement internal decoding of DTS-HD MA then it would be NEARLY as good.

the problem (not just Sony or PS3) is the catch-22.

HDMI and every receiver is created with the idea of one audio stream per device. If a movie uses PiP, fancy sound in menus..... you have two concurrent audio streams that need mixing. So what do you do as a manufacturer? do you output the DTHD, DTS-HD MA and say screw the extra sounds? do you switch what goes out (original if one, decode-mix and send out PCM or decode-mix and re-encode if two or more)? do you just decode everything internally and keep the path the same all the time (so now decoding in the receiver and 1.3 with lossless support is useless).

Why not just do what the current 1.3a players (non PS3) do..? It makes sense to me that if whatever you're playing has multiple streams at a given time they're meant to be heard at the same time...yes/no? If that's the case, then simply mix them together and be done with it. Or is that just too simple?

I'm not an audio engineer so forgive me if I'm missing something that makes this more difficult then I realize.

For bitstreaming... well, I think when that option is selected you should get the raw audio track without any modifications (with a notation in the manual to the effect that "anciliary" sounds may not be heard), but if you enable a bonus feature that absolutely REQUIRES additional audio, such as a commentary track, then the player should drop down to PCM or the best supported option by your receiver.

sooo... what am i getting when i'm watching a BD and my reciever is showing PCM? (i have the ps3 connected via HDMI to my reciever)

Depends how you have the PS3 configured. Press DISPLAY to see what it's outputting.

That is what it does. But if the disk has DTHD (for example) the player decodes it (so now it is PCM) then mixes the other audio in and needs to send it out to the receiver. But since all the work happened in PCM and PCM can pass over HDMI do you need to pass DTHD? why recompress to DTHD, any receiver that accepts DTHD will accept PCM. On the other hand it allows you down convert to more traditional lossy codec (in case you need it).


the points I was making (which go beyond PS3) were

1) If all that goes out is PCM then you don't need DTHD/DTS-HD MA decoding in the receiver and you don't need 1.3a with the ability to pass DTHD/DTS-HD MA.

2) If there is nothing to mix, then is it better to just send the original and let the receiver decode it? Or is it opening a can of worms?

On a personal note I would rather all the decoding be done in the receiver but I think most manufacturers will just go with internal decoding and so decoding in the receiver becomes less important as well as being able to pass DTHD and DTS-HD MA as such to the receiver.

i'm pretty sure it shows LPCM...? i'll have to check it out again tonite with different codecs.