OK...I'm new to the whole IR thing and cant figure out for the life of me why ANY manufacturer would make a product without discrete codes AND make them easy to access. It would seem to me that they might actually WANT our business because so many of our clients just buy what we recommend.

The Panasonic PT-AE900U is a fantastic projector (as far as picture quality) for the price. But it is useless to a professional installer because it has no 12 volt triggers and no discrete IR codes. We (installers) simply cant turn the d-mn thing on and off reliably.

Someone please tell me what in tarnation is going on...!

What I have heard is that we are such a small portion of the market that they don't bother to consult us. I heard, indirectly, that perhaps the deal with a Japanese company is that they think they know what they are doing and they don't HAVE to ask us because, well, whatever they do is right (this was in regard to Sony having piss-poor customer service).

Then there are the poor engineers themselves. One of their jobs is to keep prices down to meet price points, and this can keep them from even looking at discrete codes because, well, it meets the price point and it works, and what more could you want than that?

I also call them the poor engineers because they can be poor in understanding what will really happen with their product. I totally floored someone in Engineering at Faroudja a few years back when I called asking why their $27,000 line quadrupler did not have IR control, but only RS-232; it was being used BY A CONSUMER with a $45,000 projector. They wanted to use a Lexicon 500T remote, which was IR only. It totally did not occur to them that any such product would ever be used by a consumer, even in Hollywood, which is more or less where this was.

Lastly, but which maybe should have been firstly, these manufacturers are simply unwise because they don't actively seek recommendations from installers. JVE could have asked me first, for instance: I had to point out to JVC engineering that I couldn't use their early D-ILA models in expensive installations -- they would have to be restricted to the cheap ones -- because their IR control system was so bad, i.e. non-discrete, and their RS-232 control system consisted of a sixty-odd page document where they described with great pride how they constructed their RS-232 commands, but they didn't bother to list any actual commands and how to implement them. Thus integrated remotes were out. If the guy was too cheap to get an integrated remote, then he could use one of these; if he wanted total control via one remote, he couldn't.

most manufacturer and reps don’t even know what a discrete is never mind get support for a product if you get stuck we just get put in the to hard basket very quickly. As for the engineers it doses no take 2 sec to but the discrete into the software. I don’t mind going looking for them and are happy to share if they put it in I send way to much time writing and testing if its not there we right that model off and don’t use e.g. the new dvd/vcr Panasonic just released over here no discrete between DVD to vcr try using that and make it bullet proof in a rti amx or Creston system

Can I say no thank to that... :) Products like that... If sales sells it after we put it on... "not controlable" list. The salesman has to offer the client a different piece and work with them on price. If the customer is sted fast on the price.. guess who eats the differance? It isn't tech.