True...but....if you are worried about your customers using this site as a reference for pricing, then you need to re-evaluate who your customers are.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Customers who are going to surf the web for price are NOT YOUR CUSTOMERS! As a customer installer, you are here to help the customer who needs your SERVICE, and is willing to pay for it. DIY'ers are NOT looking to pay you for your knowlege, they are looking for your knowlege for free.

In 7 years, I've YET had a customer say "I found this exact product on the web cheaper, and I am going to buy it, and you can put it in for me." My response has always been "Sure thing, but your labor rate will be adjusted accordingly." That usually ends the discussion one of two ways: 1) They inquire as to WHY they should pay more if they provide the product (because I am a BUSINESSMAN, and I need to make money, and if you don't buy the product from me, then I need to make it on the labor), or 2) They say they'll get their brother, cousin, father, whatever to help them do it themselves.

Moral of the story is...don't be afraid of the big mean Internet.

Just my $.02 worth.

Fred

There are verified sites out threre to have these discussions, USE THEM.

Have you noticed guys wondering if they should direct their customer to this site regarding problems with specific product. I have suggested to clients to look at this site for research on products personally. Should I avoid doing so because you believe it is correct to discuss pricing and where to get product. Could it be a sale I lose because of it? Maybe I should start selling cell phone too.


What if their customers does come to this site, then what. Do you even care.

Just use a little common sense. We are here to help each other out, not make it harder on one and another.

Going through a problem where a client got wind of product at lower prices on the net. After the contract is signed and the product is sold he wants a discount. Needless to say his service is lacking right now. But we have done many houses on this street and we are exclusive with the builder who built this house.

Builder does not want to hear about clients bitchen about a couple of grand we lost when he is building 5 + million dollar homes.

I don't understand why you find this so threatening. The pricing I was talking about I found through a yahoo search and was the #1 result from yahoo.shopping.com which compares a bunch of online stores. Regarding names of suppliers...nobody knows WTF we are talking about...and even if they do they are not going to run out and setup accounts with them.

ANY consumer who cares to has access to "internet" pricing...which is often better than our distribution pricing unfortunately. This is the sad truth and something we have to figure out how to deal with...also a topic that has been discussed here many many times.

We select, order, pickup, and deliver the product to our clients livingrooms...that's why we charge what we do...right? I charge RETAIL for everything...and sometimes 20% ON TOP of that if I am forced to buy through a retail store.

I've never been ashamed to make profit. Isn't that why we are in business? I think our customers understand and have come to terms with the fact that we are making money off of them...or else why would we be doing it? We are not falanthropists. In fact if a client asks...I explain it to them.

Regarding your other comments....

I have never and never would direct a client here. I cannot even think of a case where that would be necessary. Aren't we supposed to do that sort of work for them / know what we are doing and make reccomendations...not let THEM dictate what they want us to use to get the job done.

If you want to start selling cell phones let me know...I'll get you setup :)

I don't see whatsoever how the discussions that go on here have any affect on anything.

I can't disagree with you more, why do we set up verified discussion boards? This is a public site, why is it so hard to keep certain things out of it?

Because you don't send clients here, why should other not send clients here. Many people have requested that we keep distributors and pricing out of here. Why is this so freakin hard??
What are you gaining but by posting such information??

I like when my clients are educated and I have sent some here. Other aparently have as well. Sometimes they just need to more convincing on certain issues. Like why spend a little more on a Crestron system as opposed to Control 4. They see the marketing, some company's spend more on marketing than R & D.

Just show a little professional courtesy is all I am asking. Is that really too much to ask for??

The problem with the "verified" discussion boards is that there is very little traffic in comparison to this forum. Very little activity in comparison to this one. WAY less feedback when a question is posed.

I have nothing to "gain" except for information. I seek info and input. That's all. It's not like I'm posting logins and passwords to dealer price lists. I'm talking about pricing that ANYBODY can find in .001 seconds with a yahoo or google search.

I also like when my clients are educated. It really helps make for an easier sale and a happier client. Typically I try to be hands on though, take the time to explain to them in terms they can understand. I see that as a major part of my job.

I personally think, due to the fact that we are all VERY opinionated, it might hurt us for clients to come here. What will they find? Which threads will they choose to read?

Imagine you direct them here and they just read threads where people are bitching about bad customers, crestron sucks, control 4 is good, amx is great, crestron kicks ass, control 4 is unstable, amx can't be trusted. It's all opinions here. One person says something and somebody else says something different.

They don't understand the complexities of our world and why we make the decisions we do. I think the only time I'd send someone here is if I sold them a remote because they were an advanced user or DYI'er and they needed to troubleshoot or find codes or something because I was not able to help them directly.

So an * or two is too much to ask for, or a PM or e-mail with prices. You know both my e-mail address and my phone number.


So I should make business decisions based on what you and others decide to post? Do my decisions have a chance to affect you?

That is a risk that I and others have taken, so we should stop because of your business beliefs?


So far I have heard why not and I have posted why I disgree, I believe other agree with me.

You have answered why not make these kind of posts here. I still ask why is it so hard to be discrete about this??

I have no idea why your getting all bent out of shape. I think you need to re-read the thread.

Out of courtesy to you, professional and because I consider you a friend, I went back and reviewed my posts with the intention of editing them with ***** for ya. I NEVER mentioned word one about dealer pricing. The only thing I could find that you object to is that I mentioned AVA@. I don't know why that is so offensive.




No. But you should realize that if you decide to send clients here they are free to read whatever they want and the result or outcome might not be what you expect. It is very possible that it might backfire on you. IMO, not a very safe thing to do with a potiential client.


Well...at least you realize it IS a risk...you have to decide if the return is worth it.


Check the post agian on that front


It's not hard. I don't do it. I still am confused as to why you are accusing me of doing so. Please quote specifically what you want to censor...obviously I don't understand

I objected to the headline of the post, then posting the cost of product. I had that debate with Fred previously.

I am far from bent out of shape, I disagree with your posting of the name of the distributor. Even the guys who work for the distributors post their names discretly.

That is all I a was asking for. Nothing more, nothing less. Many others have made that request as well with other posting this information.

Alrightie...done. Edited out the AVA@ for ya. Even though if you go to a products website THEY will mention who their product is distributed through.

Again, I think if somebody REALLY wants to know they will find out. And if they spend that much time trying to save a couple of bucks they will never rest until they are satisfied that you aren't making a penny off them or are losing money on the deal.

That's why those matress commercials are so popular "your killing me larry!" Some people just HAVE to get a "deal".

Not so difficult now, was it.


Never disagreed with that, usually pass on those customers. That was never my point. I mention this site all the time, in front of fellow installers and clients. That was the only point I was ever trying to make. I do not bring up IP and the verified section.

You ae very correct with that statement. I have been very lucky lateley and do not have to put up with those customers. Service cost money, that money as to be made somewhere. Whenever possible I would like to get that profit in margin. Sometimes that extra money might actually help pay the mortgage. hell even a few beers here and there is nice.

Margin is shrinking all over the place, why make it any easier?

That is my only point here. You know I love to agrue as well, especially on a day off when Dan and I started at Naja's at about 11 this morning. lol