Mr Stanley

Here's my take. A prewire for a house that size should take two guy days.
Going in to trim out the things, set the panel, do the rf layout, do the phone work, plate it out is one guy day.
Mounting speakers is one hour per pair; hanging plasmas is a two person thing, setting up the surround system depends on number of pieces, figure one hour per component.

I think your guys need more supervision. I think your 45 hour estimate (which is 6 guy days by my figure) is a tad light, but I think the number you had turned in is way overweight.

That's usually what it takes me... although I might double the gear time, due to head scratching...



You, I think are right on! I did call it a little tight... and I need to get totally involved in tracking their time, as no one else here does...

I've done a LOT of thinking about it, and feel I should really hold myself responsible for the most part...

I guess if I were one of them, and noone was on my back, I'd take my time also.

However, I don't like being micro-managed.... ticks me off...

I'm going to ask the owners if I can supervise the installers, as the guys before, who left to do their own thing were totally awesome in every way.

I'm going to have a meeting Monday. First off I'll pass out 5 or 6 floor plans & have THEM give me time estimates... Then we'll take a look at the recent labor reports on a day by day hour by hour basis and see if there is something I'm doing to slow them down.
I'm sure there I am in the equasion somewhere in terms of making them less effecient.
I just need to make them accountable for their time in the field.
I do a lot of installing myself, and know all too well, that the best laid plans can get all fouled up pretty easily... So I just have to put my anger on hold and really try and have a positive meeting, without finger pointing...
Their actions did nearly cost me my job, and for that I'm not too happy --- plus I had the horrible task of contacting all my customers, and trying to extract more $$$ out of them, which was worse than it sounds!!!
It's like, "Hey, we are really slow, and because of that you gotta pay more"!
We all know the feeling when we take in our car or van for a simple tune - up and get the call from the mechanic... "Uh... I got some really bad news for you".
This is similar.
All in all, it has been a learning experience, even though I've been doing this for ages... This is a new crew, and I'll consider it a refresher course.

Bottom line - nobody was watching things, and we let the number of trips to the jobs, and time - slip away, without any repercussions to the installers, or any real discussions of: "Hey whassup???"

Hopefully some of you reading this and rolling on the floor laughing can benefit from this posting... KEEP TRACK DAILY of the labor & if it looks like it's going south, have a discussion with the installaers and client, before it gets too out of hand!


So---for any of you guys out there hopefully this might be something you can go over with your guys... if you are experiencing similar problems.

Mr. Stanley,

I feel that it is unethical for your employer to expect your client to pick up the tab for your installers' incompetence. This is an argument I have with my business partner regularly. Additionally, your personal integrity is on the line with your clients in this matter, how does that sit with you?

I bid a job at the time it should take plus about 30% extra for slop. Frequently, a slacker installer will go WAY over on time though, but I cannot in good conscience expect my clients to pick up the tab for our failures. This would be akin to going to a car repair shop, and having them charge you 4 hours for a rookie to do a job that the book value is only 2.5 on.

As a comparison a recent job I did:

Security. 22 windows, 8 doors, 4 motion, 2 siren, 1 keypad, 3 smoke.

Distributed audio. 8 rooms for Russound CAV w/2 Abus subzones

Surround. 5.1 in Family room, 5.1 in Bonus room (w/distributed HD/DVD).

Data. 6 runs

Telco. 10 runs + Service feed.

Cable. 9 runs _ Service feed.

Central Vacuum. 10 Outlets + 1 Dustpan.


Pre-wire/pre-pipe = 20 hours.
Trim out = 24 hours.
Final test/demo = 4 hours.



Those guys need to be unemployed.....

If you are being back-charged commissions on the jobs you couldn't pull off change orders for the extra labor due to the overages, and the installers are still getting their normal rate for the time they turned in on these projects, I would seriously reconsider your position.

I think that the installers should take a little of this bite as well...

At the least, it seems like you have to split that crew.
In my experience, complacency and mediocrity are definitely contagious.

I recently worked with a guy who came highly recommended who routinely took time in the middle of a trimout (even while standing on the ladder) to read and send text messages to his girlfriend on his cell phone...

Not "hey honey, don't forget to stop and get the dry cleaning" or "who's picking up the kids from daycare?" or anything like that which I could easily overlook... Nope, this was just idle chatter back and forth like 10-15 times right in front of me before I finally said something!!

Needless to say, I let him know in clear terms that unless she was chipping in on his paycheck for that job, he needed to let her go until the work was done.

As to the comment by Easton about work ethic and the absolute lack of commitment to efficiency and productivity, I feel fortunate to be in the Chicago area where we have a lot of hardworking Polish and Eastern European immigrants who bust their asses and show the pampered kids what's up on these jobsites.

If I ever decided to leave where I am now, I would DEFINITELY consider picking up a Rosetta Stone CD on Polish and find a couple quality guys to sub out. I would probably also have to bite the bullet for documentations software like D-Tools to create plans and work sheets to help to make up for some language issues, but I see that being absolutely worth it for the extra productivity and the communication benefit with the Polish laborers from other trades.

I agree 100% about expecting the client to to pick up the tab. The labor overrunsI have been asked to talk to the client(s) about are actually minor things that changed on the job, that ordinarially we look the other way on... but do to how these jobs went, we are turning over stones so that we are not giving away any more than we should.
I think, looking at it from my boss' viewpoint, she is basically putting me throug h a little firewalk, so that I get the idea! We are being fair to the clients' and if they don't see things our way, we are not putting any pressure on them... Trying to create a win-win situation.
I spent last night pouring over some pretty helpful project management books, and I think the reality of it all is - is that if I was aware of the drawn-out install times, I should have become more involved, instead of taking the attitude that if no one else cares, why should I?
I also should taken responsibility for being part of the problem... Maybe I expect miracles... in too short of install times?
I am looking forward to seeing if we can affect some positive changes at work from all of this. The installers probably were just figuring... Hey! We can take it easy, it's cool, no pressure!
Who wouldn't like a super laid-back gig?!
I honestly think they were not really aware of their ineffeciencies. If anything, they were probably just taking a lot more time so I wouldn't get on them for doing "hack-quality" work, since I've been ragging on them about making the wiring neat, along the overall installtion cosmetics and quality...? They may be focusing a little too much on that, and losing site of the overall picture...Or... maybe I'm, full of shit, and just need to kick some ass?!?!

I've run so far over myself on various projects big and small. That's probably what keeps this work interesting.
You are playing beat the clock on a job thinking you'll come out way ahead on labor, when all of the sudden you realise that behind that sheetrock wall that you were going to cut in 3 front channel in-walls is solid concrete!

"Or... maybe I'm, full of shit, and just need to kick some ass?!?!"

You may have an answer there. You aren't a democrat by any chance?

Your boss must be wise to this forum now or else you probably wouldn't be acting like such a pussy.

Stanley,

I wouldn't use as harsh a term as Easton did but I have to agree. You shouldn't be internalizing this. Trunk Slammer's job quote proves he's faster than me but I know that I could personally have pulled off that job in way less time...by myself.

My crew both smoke... a LOT. One of my guys has an earbud on and talks to his wife about 1/2 an hour each day. BUT... they get the work done... almost always in less time than I bid it for... I guess I'm fortunate. But now that I have the experience with these two and the guy who used to work for me who was a total stud, I would have a really hard time with this. I would discount the hours heavily to not piss off the client... then I'd make these guys asses hurt and I'd watch them like hawks. I'd set daily expectations and if they were'nt met I'd write 'em up two times and then fire them (the whole just cause thing. I get resumes every other week and actually just got one from a guy who recently moved here. I can't hire him right now but if you'd like it forwarded... There are a lot of guys out there who can do the work.

. I would discount

rhm9...
I'm on that! I also need to make sure I'm allowing enough time, and that they ahve what they need, and I have teality based expevrarions.



Sure! Is this Pat??

So as I mentioned before... my company likes me to sit infront of a computer and that is about it. They let me touch the network stuff becaue I need to configure it anyways...

Monday I am programing a remote for the upstairs system. I put in a remote downstairs last week. Now I noted at the time that the cable box was not working right. SO the customer has arranged for a pick up that day to replace it. Well other tech gets held up and I just work on what I have on my sheet. 2/3 of the gear is in place and I get a call on what the 2 missing pieces are going to be. Well I program in my template for a VCR and the DVD player we use all the time. Set the links and the aliases and make sure that the addys are right. Install the RF unit and make sure volume is going to work across the board per input (just to make sure).

There is a DVD/VCR combo in place already that is supposed to be removed by the other tech. Well I have nothing to do and this is not a rack, its on shelves. So I remove the Combo unit and find its remote.

Well installer calls and say he can't get comcast box. But he is almost here with the DVD and VCR. Well I was told that he was going to take care of this... that is why he was sent there too. I mean all I can do is remotes??? Well he shows up and holds out the 2 pieces at arms lenth and explains, "I have got to keep moving..." I give him a run down as to what is happening there as he outranks me... he just glazes over.

Hand him the old piece and he is out of there...

Open up the boxes and plug in the 2 new pieces. Set the outputs on the OSDs and the receiver... total time about 8 mins. Walk around to the TV to check if there is a picture. There is... is there sound... yup... can I control it... mostly. So I test and finish the program.

(Time that was budgeted to remove old unit and install new pieces 2 hours.)

Finish up my work as I am payed per project and am staisfied that the system works. I show it to one of the home owners when the other shows up with the new cable box.

"Can you put this in?"

It is on top of the system downstairs. Just pull all the plugs and IR flasher off one and line them up for the other. Power unit on then off then enter menu. Change relevant settings and then reapply the IR flasher. Walk back upstairs to say.. "this needs to be called in."

"Wow your quick you were down there less than 5 mins."

Once again... scheduled time on ticket 1/2 to an hour. Well if I had to drive there... 3 hours to do the stuff and drive home. But I was already there???

Then I remembered... I WAS NOT SCHEDULED TO DO THIS ALL! Another tech was. Ohhh.