with all the hub bub going on in here as of late about electricity, i am statring to doubt my powers and second guess alot(ability)...no pun intended

i asked sparky for 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits behind equipment rack on a house, he ran 2 12 gauge blacks and 1 12 guage white they are on same phase (supposedly) (chicago conduit) is this ok? i wanted to see 2 neutrals instead.

signed

confussed for life

I am in no way an electrical professional, but from what I know (and what Larry and some other have said) this is not on the same phase. You should have 2 neutrals to make them both on the same phase. To me it sounds like he is cheating you out of one run.

You ended up with only one useful 20 amp circuit. I don't think they can be on the same phase and pass code, but I am NOT a sparky, so I hope one will chime in with the official answer to that one.

Put all the Video and PReamps on one and the house and surround amps on the other and see if there is no noise. Good Luck ed.

They can not be on the same phase w/ only one neutral. You could exceed 20 amps on the neutral if both circuits have big load on them. The blacks are on different phases. If you want to check put your meter across the blacks. If you get 230 or so then they are on a different phase if you get nothing and they are on then they are on the same phase. Have the electrician pull another neutral or use only 1 black.

Paul

you should always second guess, whenever I see sparky in the field doing something I don't think is right, rather than confront him I ask him what he is doing, as though I am trying to learn, then I bounce a conflicting question and usually get some sort of resolve, a lot of good electricians I work with have a crew of guys that are not licensed. The guy with the license usually gets the permit then he's out.

Worked the other day with two of these guys who refused to shut off the circuit to replace a bunch of smart dimmers. They did pipework in the house that was beautiful so I couldn't understand this. I watched, listenned, and cringed. At the end of the install, (after first day I hooked the rest of them myself) the owner of the company asked me why I sent him a bill for $$$$$. I told him that in the first day, his guys roached 9 of our dimmers.

I second that opinion.

ceied,

You should hire a pro!

Try using scare tactics. You need to tell every Chicago electrician your having an inspector buddy test all hard lines. Then have one of your installers piss in his work van.

Then have one of your installers

I think a little pee came out after I read this. ILMAO

Never pissed in a car but...Back in my car audio days I had an installer take a poo in a jerk customers sub box. That will learn em not to cross an installer. He told the customer the smell was some new glue we used to upholster the box. I could not keep a straight face when I had him in my office admonishing him for his actions. Gross but if you knew the customer you would laugh your ass off.

.25 cents please.

ok so we do need 2 white wires neutrals?! i'm still messed up. confusing fact and fiction at this point.

i thought we need 2 neutrals.

ed

neutral = white

yep need 2

notice no caps - wanted to speak your language so you would fully understand.

Disagree (respectfully). All the neutrals tie into one grounded buss in the panel. I believe it is OK for up to three circuits to share a neutral. 12 ga is OK for 20A.

If you want two separate 20A circuits, on the same phase, then you will need two 12awg neutrals.

If you want two circuits and it is ok for them to be 180 degrees out of phase or "balanced circuits" then the two circuits can share a neutral. (assuming 240V home wiring)

In fact if you have two circuits, feed from two different phases , on a shared neutral, and the loads are equal, the neutral current will be zero.

You could actually remove the neutral in that scenario and it would work. In real life the loads on the two circuits are rarely equal and so the neutral current becomes the difference between the two load currents. This means that the neutral current in a "balanced" circuit will always be less than or equal to the max breaker current. (ignoring Harmonic currents)

Regards,
Ela

Larry, where are ya when we need ya!

I'd love to clear this up, but on this forum I defer to Master Fine on this topic.