What do you guys generally charge per "hole" when doing in-ceiling speakers? Im talking about a retrofit job, and lilely one that you did not wire, so some toning will be needed.

I generally figure an hour per hole, but am wondering if Im too high after reading the "lathe" thread. (Some guys mentioned charging an hour per hole, but on the PITA lathe jobs, not the normal sheetrock like Im used to.

T & M (time & materials)

I am a measure 20 times cut once guy so I kill about an hour per hole. I watched a guy get a sawzall out after a ceiling joist once and vowed that would NEVER be me. Somehow I never flinched when cutiing a hole in the door of a 100k sports car but I pour sweat every time I touch my drywall saw? I am so glad plaster is extremely rare around here! I think plaster may give me a nervous breakdown if I ever run into any. I did have to deal with a house that had tounge in groove oak ceilings last week. It also had pink fiberglass blown in insulation and asbestos ac ducts to boot. The roof pitch was such that I had to belly crawl everywhere I went in the attic, thank God the oak ceiling was nailed in well. This was all my gear with a firm quote so I am still hurting and ITCHING! Lesson Learned.
New question for clients...What year was your house built? Oh 1964...Your "estimate" is T&M!
I will post some pics of "The Little Attic of Horrors" over at IP soon.

I do T&M on all reto's.

Are you talking about "the wires are in the ceiling" or "I want speakers here"?

An hour to cut a hole and connect it to existing (hidden) wire is a good estimate.

Plaster or drywall, it takes about the same amount of time.

Plaster will burn through bits(or blades) and should be adjusted to accordingly.

I've ran into plaster that takes two bits to cut a hole!!!

Thats why T&M is the only way to go!

Use an hour as a "quote" but prepare the client for the worst!

Ditto, unless we are doing the wire runs as well (if it's a new retrofit with no existing work to work from)...then we bid it hourly, based on past experience. Here in FL, I don't encounter too many old houses with lath and plaster, mostly drywall here. General rule of thumb is 1~2 hours for the wire pull, 1/2 hr per hole, 1~2 hrs for equipment setup and testing, 1~3 hrs for remote programming, depending on the remote, what equipment is used, etc. By the time you add it all up, it most often becomes a full day rate.

Just my $.02 worth.

Fred Forlano
Higher Definition

Im assuming you are talking about per ROOM?

you guys are having better luck at t&m than I would ever have.

Frank,
I think they mean by room.

T&M is not ussually hard to get, just as long as customers understand the reasoning behind T&M on retro.

We typically try to flat bid but, explain to customers that we can run into unforeseen issues. Thankfully, we rarely do "suburb" type work but, we have had to follow Ultimate Electronics or Courtesy Elec. (a couple of the more prolific prewire co's in the area, both with a "deserved" reputation) a few times and we have to refuse flat rates in those types of situations.

If anyone is offended that I called out a couple of co's that stink, oh well. You probably aren't aware of just how bad they are.

I'm not offended. I've worked for both co's. I think that 99.8% of the electricians that do audio prewires have no real clue of doing the install, once the drywall is on.

SG1

Nor BEFORE the drywall is on. If so, I wouldnt be seeing single RG6 runs to a PJ location, no cat5 to speaker KP locations, etc etc etc

Correct.

Fred

Why would you do it any other way? Consider this...

If you try to quote, you need to average out to the labor rate you want. If half your jobs are high, and other half low, by the same amount, you are good. I'll bet, if you are like me in my quote-it days, you end up quoting lower labor times that are actual about three times in four. So, if you're like me, you're underearning or just plain losing money on three in four jobs.

If you can get one in four customers to pay your hourly rate, and if you are like me, you are effectively even, and work only about 1/4 the time.

I'll bet, given my experience moving from quoting to T&M, you get about 2/3 of the jobs, and many of the jobs you lose are the ones you would have wished to be out of had you begun the work.

Just my experience.

all our retro work automatically adds 50% to the labor line and our contracts still give us the opportunity to charge more for unforeseens