remember where everyone discussed the elements of a certified integrator-friendly product? where did that go?
thanks

This one?

[Link: remotecentral.com]

Hope that's what you're looking for...

Fred Forlano
Higher Definition

thanks Fred -- that one is close, but I recall one where someone started a long list of features that would define "integrator-friendly" Think it was a few months earlier than this one.
thanks again

Topic: Cedia Certified Products!
[Link: remotecentral.com]

Topic: What would you like from CEDIA?
[Link: remotecentral.com]

YES, 2nd rick! Thanks. I'm wondering if CEA could possibly take up the cause. they are moving in that direction with new subwoofer spec, next amps, then probably speakers.

[Link: cepro.com]

not exactly what we're talking about here, but it wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Home audio amps and receivers have been covered for decades by EIA517B, it's just that improvements in amplifier design have given shady designers ways to make their specs look better than they are...

When the spec was written, it required references to distortion figures, as well as bandwidth for a rated output.

In regard to the bandwidth, manufacturers can post "cheater" 1K specs which can exceed full band 20-20KHz specs by 20-3-% or more.
In regard to distortion, the IC chip manufacturers have designed in more feedback to deliver lower THD numbers, but they are still massively lacking in current to drive a real load.
In regard to impedance, a manufacturer may list a 6 ohm rating instead of the more common 8 ohm rating. Ohm's law states that this can mean up to 50% increase in rated power.

Not to pick on Denon, but they did this with the "home" line vs. the "specialty" line up until a couple years ago.

The home line was sold at Sears and other big box stores (and a certain large security distro), published power ratings at 1KHz, and at 1% distortion... while the specialty line were sold through specialty a/v stores and had ratings at 8 ohm, with 20-20KHz bandwidth, and .08% distortion which were ~20% lower...

They are exactly the same receivers, just meant for a different market.

Denon defended this by claiming that the superstore clerks needed the crutch of the stronger ratings to help them sell the products against lower priced products on the same shelves.

All Denons from both lines are rated to the same standard now, but this was just the first example of this behavior that came to mind.