"Too expensive. I have DVD/vcr. the TV's are wrong. We have no speakers in great room. I don't want a special remote. I hate technology!!!!!"

This is a quote from a customer that responded to my proposal.

I called her today and said that if she did not want speakers in the great room then she would have no music there. She said...why not. I could not answer her because it was 9:30 in the morning and I was not yet drunk enough!

I also told her that if she did not get the all in one remote then she would be dealing with up to 6 remotes and it WILL BE CONFUSING. She said that she will learn and she will take notes!!! heee heee

She then said that her husband wanted Polaroid plasma's and that he would pay me to pick them up at CC or BB. I said no prob...That would be $72/hour and I think all tolled it would take2 hours. She freaked out!

I suggested that she and hubby call CC and have them install.

Now here is my question/comment. Business is a bit slow here in NH/Mass this time of year which is usual, and I just told a customer to find someone else. Even in the best of times, I usually work very hard to get new business, but now when it is slow I just told a customer to get lost!

How many of you do this and what line in the sand do you have? Where is your point of selling/explaining met with wasted time?

they crossed my line in your first sentance...you did good

ed

I would have done my best to educate them on why to use me instead of CC but I think this deal was gone before it started. It may come back to you though...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

You are selling your knowledge, skills, and ability, not product.

If your customer is money-minded, then walk them. If they don't see the value in what you have to offer, then they are not who you want to be dealing with. This doesn't mean that if they want to work with you buy insist on a Sony instead of a Fujitsu, you drop them....but if they are so dense they don't understand they are paying for your EXPERTISE, then they need to go to a low-cost superstore and get what they pay for.

I'll see if I can find my "Kellogs Corn Flakes" analogy for you, and you'll see what I mean.

Just my $.02 worth

Fred Forlano
Higher Definition

NH,

Good job... It sucks that we can't just be constant and pick and choose our clients with all of the best criteria. I have been walking a few lately and have had no problem with my decisions. Its easy to second guess yourself but TWAs (time wasting a--holes) are just not good for your business, your future and your sanity.

The most memorable one was a Microsoftie who was internet shopping me all to heck. I had a good 5 hours into visits and proposal so it hurt to say adios as I needed to fill the schedule for the installers. My gut told me it would be a real headache though and I let it go.

One day later a guy called with a house that needed prewiring ASAP (you know those last minute ones). Ended up being a great job and a great client... one I probably wouldn't have been able to take on if I was working on the other job I passed on.

Ira Friedman (Bay Audio) has a great way of assessing current jobs. Remember that the type of job you do will generate that type of referral (good job... good referral... s----y job... S-----y referral. If you want to do a lot of s----y jobs take them on because their friends will want the same.

You get what you pay for in this world...........nothing more nothing less! Walk em dude! Usually the ones that are like that up front are the houses that you can not get out of at the end.

RadioRhea

I love that line.

(I'd have walked her too, and since the advent of resonably priced universal remotes, I refuse to do a system without one). My days of standing behind the sofa trying to show Mr. Middle America how to operate his system while his wife frantically scribbles down handwritten notes are OVER.

Most people have absolutely no idea what goes into installing a modern day electronics system. The wiser people will trust the advice of a competent professional, while the no-it-alls think like Frank's tag line of "it's all just a bunch of wires isn't it?"

I have no use for the latter group. Send them to Best Buy, Circuit, Sam's Club, whathaveyou and let Skippy the 17 year old expert muck up their system. Some people just don't deserve to have quality work.

Lets face it.

Some clients aren't worth having.

Even if biz is slow!

The headaches, ulcers(wich can also come from a slow month!), and wasted time just aren't worth it!

I would rather work for UPS loading trucks at night to keep some income than deal with the "proffesional internet shoppers"

Let them buy their CRAP that is hard to operate, will probably be a waste of money, and will educate them towards hiring a pro!(school of hard knocks)

I feel bad that they wasted a ton of money trying to save a buck on a system that they will never enjoy, can't operate, and will probably never use because it's a pain but,
thats life!

The painfull joke is on them!

nh hifiguy...
I've made the mistake twice in the last 6 months of NOT waliking people, I KNEW I should have... but I needed the cash flow - but in retrospect I was being stupid... The problem is that these a-holes have each taken (at least) ten times longer to work with than normal, are constantly holding back payments, bitching about any tiny detail and getting screwy advice from friends and or BB sales punks, and never were to begin with --- happy, and I will never change that, although I've tried and tried to make these people happy - but it's a losing proposition!!! The time I've wasted on these two jobs, both small ones too... I could of spent that time bird-dogging new GOOD business...
I have though, over the last few years,been booting more and more clients, especially the internet shoppers, or low-ballers---(even though I was always taught the customer is always right, and in my retail days... NEVER blew off even the real a-holes)... Especially now that margins are getting slimmer and slimmer, it isn't worth the grief to jump through a bunch of hoops for a lot of these guys... (Got a call the other night @ 10:30)..."Hey! I can't hear the rear speakers"!!! So I had to take about 15 minutes trying to explain to him, his TV show wasn't being broadcast in surround... This is the same guy that wasted a couple days of my time to tell him what Plasmas he should get, and he bought them from CC's outlet store...(all unboxed floor demos) missing manuals, cable cards, bracket parts... (he bought 4 I WAS going to supply him)... Now I'm hunting down manuals, bracket parts etc.!
You did the right thing, and yes, it's tough to say NO to people, but THOSE people will keep chipping away at your time, patience and self respect and you'll probably end up going backwards financially and resenting yourself and the client for doing so.
I bid a pre-wire last week, and spec'd in some really well thought out components... Had some cool ideas for making the install be a real "stealthy install" etc.The client got a second bid with run of the mill crap, and he'll probably put some "contractor -grade" cheap assed in-walls...with a cheap boom-box sub woofer, and no macro-programmed remote. I mean it was not even an apples to apples comparison, but his bid won out over a couple hundred bucks!!! He'll probably end up with a mediocre looking and sounding install --- but, I was not going to drop my rates, as it was already below what I should have bid it at... But it was probably a blessing in disguise... I'm working with another client right now, who whenever I suggest an upgrade, or adding on something, regardless of cost, always replies with "Sounds Great Man, --- lets do it, I'm going to be using this every day for many years to come"...
What a difference vs. "Hey I saw that remote control on the internet for $50 bucks cheaper"!!! Or... "I have a friend who has a friend who knows this stuff, and he is going to give me a price". You did the sane thing.

"Ma'am, did you ask me for a proposal because you already have what you want, or because you already know exactly what is needed to get what you want?"


I sometimes will ask people to speak with a little more subtle humanity and say "people WHO" instead of "people THAT," but she sounds like a "that."


This method positively works. And it often represents about the same amount of time that it takes to do most of the programming on one of those "fancy" remotes. The differences are a)she won't have a program at the end of it and b)she will invariably misread a note, or abbreviate and forget the meaning, so have to spend more money having you come out to work it through again. Nobody teaches for free, and it takes special skills to teach people who have no clue but already think they know it all.


Be sure to tell her that your rate for fixing CC installations, based on prior experience, is (your rate + $15) per hour, and you cannot do an estimate now because you can't tell what they might come up with this time.


You saved yourself a few gray hairs and maybe lost weekends. Pat yourself on the back, even if you are still a bit unsure or uptight about walking her. But leave an opening for them to ask you to do the work and put yourself in the driver's seat. It will be misery otherwise.


Print out this thread and drop it in their mailbox.

nh you did the right thing. I am slow right now as well, but I have walked away from 2 nightmare jobs last week. I just got the feeling in my gut when I talked to them that all they wanted was cheap, cheap, and more cheap. I don't mind doing economy systems, I don't mind them buying the the Plasma elsewhere, but I do mind when they start dwendling my bid and saying things like, "That remote is aweful expensive. Doesn't the plasma come with a remote?" I told one of the couples that yes all the components come with remotes, but that did you really want to be giving a list of instructions to the babystitter so your kid could watch a movie? I usually put a Pronto (I know, I know) on the bid with 4 hours of programming. If they balk, I will step down to a Harmony but that is where I draw the line. Once I tell them my 8 year old can operate my system with our Harmony they are sold.

Don't sweat it, worry about other things like how to find good help.

You made the right call... If business is slow now I know it can be rough, but imagine you took the job, then, when you get busy, these people will still be calling you taking time away from your nice paying customers. You definately made the right call, there is no way a job like that would have been profitable.

Like an earlier poster said, don't waste time on these, even if you don't have much going on. This could distract you from a much better job.

You're in business to make money, not lose it, as well as your sanity too. It's better to stay home and drink beer than work for cheapos who won't listen to you and trust you, only for a few bucks net profit at the end of the job.

Ira's point is right; stay with the ones who are good to you.

You did the right thing.

I am in a different custom business but I have looser customers and slow times too. I just tell them,

"have you looked at other bids from other reputable competitors?"

"We are very competitive as long as they are reputable competitors"

"But if you are only interested in price and you dont care about a quality design-installation and service I understand not everyone can afford us"

if that doesn't change their mind set I proceed with.....

"sorry I can help you". I then tell them, "you should keep my business card handy when everything else fails give me a call"

And finally when I depart I say "Good luck! I have seen what some of less reuptable companies do. You are going to need it.

If they call me back to fix the mess they get charged a premium and up front.