Friends,

I have a problem with a customer and I am at wits end to try to solve it. Some background:

Customers had a house built which I prewired and then when move in day came I installed existing equipment and additional plasma's and whole house audio. All was well and they paid me on my terms up intil now.

I witnessed some real hard bashing of vendors on the site, and to be honest I was kind of concerned and decided that I should finish as soon as possible and get paid and get out. The GC is now suing to get his money and according to the GC (whom I know to be very honest) the trickle down is many of his subs will not be paid.

Mr. Customer walks, talks and tries very hard to be Tony Soprono and Mrs is using some sort of drug...or may truly have a problem breathing through her nose.

Well, I get a call the other night and He cannot get a plasma to work. After doing some walk through over the phone, I figured that the Sat receiver was off and I knew why as here in New England there were electrical outages due to a storm a few days ago. (the Sat receiver will NOT go on if power has been broken..you need to turn it on via hard or remote on button)

Well, I walked them thru and got them going, but now he is making a claim that he will not pay me the balance he owes me because it is not his fault the power went out and the Sat receiver needed to be turned on.

My bad= I did not program a Sat receiver on command, but there is no on off discretes and normaly the receiver is left on.

My bad= I did not specify in my contract/disclaimer re: hard turn on of gear if there was a power outage.

Customers bad= He refused to let me come by and explain what to do in the event of a power outage or any other unusual event.

Attorney friend of mine= No judge will let customer get away with non payment as long as I go over and beyond attempts to fix. (UPS comes to mind)

My question to you people is have you ever felt like you were taken and then sued or filed a lein on the customers property for unpaid balances. Or did you just run as fast as you could. The balance is $4000.00 and it would hurt real bad, but I could survive. On the other hand this just does not seem fair and I am mad as hell.

I would like to hear your stories...of real bad installs that have or have not gone the way of the court system.

If you have a contract, have your lawyer friend check out the terms. Generally, if you provided goods and services, you are due to be paid. I sincerely doubt the fact that he had to get up and press a button is grounds to not pay you. He sounds like one of those people who likes to "play the odds" that you're too lazy to come after him and take action. I say go after him. Put a lein on the house and take him to court. Chances are he won't even show and the judgement will be defaulted in your favor. The part that will hurt is that judgements will show on his credit report. Good luck.



Thank you,
Damon DG
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http://www.ProRemotes.com - Authorized Dealer & Remote Programming Services

nh-hifiguy...

I've got a few... but the most recent one was a large install we did... The marantz remote was loaded with macros for the theater... Only thing is, that due to the length of the macros, it worked best, if you set the remote on the coffee table, and hit the macro button... worked 100%. We showed him this & it was in our written instructions...
Customer always forgot to do that, would hit macro button, and be waving the remote around... so the system wouldn't always fire up 100%.
He owes about $22,000 balance. So... we placed a lien on his property last week... That seems to be getting results.
I didn't know this, but in our state - A small contractor is actually required to automatically file a right to lien on any job that they start... although a lot of us don't for fear of bumming out the client... But it is sort of a law, or at least our right to do so - so we don't get screwed by these dirt-bag clients. Filing a lien is easy, in fact in most areas, there are outfits that will automatically file a lien for you each time you take on a new project... I used to use one called Construction Lien Services... for about $35 they would process all the paperwork etc.
I'd just lien the guy, and if he squawks that's his problem... You're not sueing him, or doing anything offensively or being agressive in any manner... Tell him you have started a new policy that all projects are automatically set up that way... Tell him your insurance guy demands you do it...

Or you could go out to the house, tell him the Plasma needs to be serviced, take it down... back to your shop, and hang onto it until he pays you!!!

My friend built houses... and once he built this huge rear deck with hot tub, sauna all that stuff. The client kept coming up with excuses not to pay... So one afternoon my friend got his entire crew together, and they sawed the deck off his house, and hauled it all away!!!!
Now... THAT is illegal, but nothing was ever said.

I don't know if you are back east or not... But another builder friend of mine came back out here, because he said it was customary for a lot of the rich guys back in the Hamptons area, to start sueing their contractors right at the end of their projects... He got burnt out came back here!

Don't walk away though... He sounds like a piece of work!

The other stickler is that in all states that I know of, once you deliver a product and install it in thier home, they own it. Doing this could result in you being accused of theft. The best defense is to make sure you have everything documented and even if you think they won't pay or haven't paid, complete your part of the job, that way you have stuck to your contract, the client has not. I would think that any judge would side with you if this is the case.

I would just put a cheap UPS in, show him it works after a power outage and get my money. If that didn't get me paid that lien deal looks like a non aggressive alternative. If you need the 4K, I know I do, I would consider small claims court for starters and escalate as needed.

When I am being paid by the GC I am forced to file a lien waiver before I get paid. I am told the bank requires this before disbursing funds.

Xantech makes an outlet with discreet power #680-10 that would give you discreet on for any device, a little pricey though.

Definitely call his bluff...

Dirtbags like this love to throw their weight around. I got stiffed for $2500 on a condo job in a high rise that overooks Lake Michigan last winter...

The guy claimed thay the Video Request was an "unfinished" product because it didn't upload cover art and the autiomatic disc recognition was only 90% accurate. I explained both of these scenarios to him, and explained that I would groom the DB and add art, as well as train him and his teenage children, on how to grab artwork and edit any errant titling for future additions.

He wanted us to accept the deposit as payment in full, and told us to sue Request... He contacted the manufacturer directly from what I have heard, he claimed that he hadn't being compensated for being a beta site, and demanded some on-site service.

Your customer thinks he is negotiating from a position of strength... You need to clearly sate to him that you have plenty of options when it comes to recourse for this unpaid invoice on the contract that he has agreed to.

I would bet that there aren't too many a/v guys in your area, and that you probably know more than a few of them. Let this guy know that if he doesn't pay his invoice, that not only will he not get any service from you in the future, but that you and your your competitors communicate issues just like this and that they will very likely honor that ban as well.

Have the atty friend draft a "final warning" letter that warns of the property lein as the next step. Put the chance for a judgement right in the letter.

One thought I have had, usually only with commercial clients whose business prospects or ethics are dicey, is to structure the project as a lease-to-own deal, with full ownership only being transferred when the final payment is made. It may or may not help with things that are actually attached to the building, but it could easily cover racks and the like.

Arrange to stop by and take a look at his system. Just wanting to be "helpful" sort of thing.

While there "accidently" disconnect some crucial parts of the system before you leave.

When this jerk calls wanting "his" system fixed, tell him you'd be glad to provide warranty service, but that in order to qualify for warranty service, an item must paid for.

I've filed liens in the past, and it was always a useless process. Prettymuch the same with a lawsuit. The lawyer gets his, you get satisfaction but next to nothing monetarily.

Wasnt that the original problem in the first place? The power outage resulted in a powered down unit, and re-applying power did NOT re-boot the unit. So all the Xantech piece would allow would be a discreet "power outage" :)

Dont even need to arrange a visit. Stop by and install (for free) a T-pin in the coax line from the dish. Hell call the next day for no picture:)

I think small claims is step one. You can't file a lien normally without a judgment. I'd think you will get paid sooner than later, especially with an attorney friend to help.

I put a lien on someone's Volvo once and they were madder than a hornet when they tried to sell it and found that it was not clear. Got paid all plus interest in a hurry.

Try this,

Ask the customer to hand write a punch list of complaints, and what it will take to make him happy.

If the list is reasonable, complete it. If not, reason with them.

Complete the list and ask for payment. Try to be on there side of the issue.

There isn't a court out there who will not help you collect with a handwritten punch list, and a customer signed agreement.

Mike

First, $4,000 is no longer small claims in any state.

Lien laws are different in every state. In Missouri, you have 6 months after your last visit to file a lien. But a lien is only the first step. If you are awarded the lien it is on the house and property that it sits on. It only does you good when he goes to sell the house and property.

There are also rules about what type of products can be liened. For example, in Missouri you cannot put a lien on anything that is not "built-in" to the structure. I used to sell appliances to builders, and we could not put a lien on a range. I am talking a cooktop and oven in one piece that 80% of all homes have. That is because it can be removed and sold again. A dishwasher could not. I can't tell you how many times we got burned by this. The reason I am saying this is that you may not have lien rights on the plasma or any A/V source equipment that is not "buit-in."

I would sit down with an attorney and map out a course of action. One thing my attorney always says is that it is cheaper to be sued than to sue!

Small claims in California is up to $5,000.

I had this happen once and had the customer write down all he was unhappy with. Most of which was cosmetic and had nothing to do with system operation. He even went so far as to gouge the front his $2,500 DVD player implying we had delivered it that way. He did'nt know we take pictures of all racks after completion.

Anyway we offered to come over and fix all operational issues . Pretty much it was just a re-training for his wife. Then we asked for payment. He said he wanted to try it out for a couple more weeks. When I told him no he asked that we leave. I spoke to another contractor on the site and he told me they were doing the same thing to him.

A few days later I left a message and asked them how everything was working and got no response. I Immediately drafted a letter and sent it certified with signature required with a copy of a lien I said I was going to file if I did not hear back from them in 3 days.

That got them to call and after talking to him for awhile I came to the conclusion that all he was looking for was a discount. I said if he sent me a cahiers check today I would take off $500 and consider it finished.

I got the chasiers check 2 days later and havent heard from them since.

I think most of these people just over spend then add up at the end all of the extras they put into their houses and know that if they chalenge every contractor on the site some will cave and some will fight. So they know they can same some money.

I look at it a compromise show them you are nice but mean business give them a little bone and they will take it because thats all their really looking for.

None of these rich people wants a judgement on their credit. So in the end if you trully have performed and they have no real claim they will pay but by giving them a little something in their mind they have won.

One last thing write down every date and time you have spoken too and continue to speak with this customer and a brief description of what you talked about and what was said by both parties. Enclose that in a letter form with your lien letter to your customer. If he takes that to his attorney he'll know you are on top of everything and mean business.

Jason