Does anyone charge extra for dealing with dirty, disgusting work areas? My installers hate working in these types of areas and I don't blame them, but the question is can we charge extra for it? Anyone have a surcharge for that muddy, dirty, rat caracass crawl space that no one has been in for twenty years?

Constructive thoughts welcome.

My installers have my instructions to respectfully decline to work in such a site and have the client contact me. Same goes for spaces with scorpions, venemous snakes, black widows, skunks, unterminated/non-enclosed A/C wire ends, broken glass, etc...Injuries that can be prevented should. Muddy kind of goes with the job some days, but leaking septic pipes are not acceptable. Don't charge more, just don't do the job until whatever the problem is gets cleaned up. Most clients will appreciate you bringing such problems to their attention, and understand your installer's concerns.

I absolutley agree i have been on several installs where i have seen problems not related to the work i am doing and have reported them back to the client eg insect infestations ,slow leaking pipes , smell of gas etc after reporting these problems the client often trusts you more as it can save them money in the long run.
I see myself not only as a AV installer but a solution provider if my customer has a problem and its within my capability to resolve it safely and legally i will.
After reading several posts in this forum i am sure most of you do the same its worth your while to be nice
as for charging more as ian schatz said dont take on any jobs you cant do safely but a bit of muck didnt hurt any one as long as its clean!!

We have a series of different rates based on how dangerous the work is and whether the installer is expendable or not.

For instance, we would charge $475.00 per hour for one of our top installers to work in a scorpion infested area. But we lower our rates to $25.00 per hour if it is an installer we would like to fire but don't want to have him collect unemployment compensation.

That's too funny Q! But it does give me some ideas.

Serious answer. First I agree with everything that Ian said and if we’re talking about rats etc. I don’t think anyone should be working under those circumstances in the first place.

Otherwise, I personally feel that it is a bad business decision to charge more for work based on its “un-pleasantness level”. I don’t like doing lots of stuff I have to do. Too f___ing bad for me!

I think the idea of telling a client that you charge more to work in an attic or crawl space looks bad in the client’s eyes and sounds arrogant. I’m not saying you might not be able to get away with it. Someone else here claimed he charged double for working in crawlspaces and attics. But I don’t think it makes good business sense.

On the other hand, I think it is perfectly acceptable to charge more for work that requires more skill or requires an employee that earns a higher salary. For instance, it is perfectly reasonable to charge more per hour for retrofit wiring than for new construction wiring. Or if the work will be in an attic without a finished floor (where someone could fall through the ceiling), therefore requiring one of your more skilled installers, I think it’s reasonable to charge more for that.


This message was edited by QQQ on 11/11/02 01:15.46.

QQQ sez:
<< So if the work will be in an attic without a finished floor (where someone could fall through the ceiling), therefore requiring one of your more skilled installers, I think it’s reasonable to charge more for that. >>

What am I missing here? If it does not have a finished floor, it is an attic; if it has a finished floor, it is another story! The work in an "attic" with a finished floor almost MUST cost more, especially if it involves running wires to locations where speakers are to be mounted in the ceiling (of the room below.) The wires need to be hidden, holes cut in the "floor...."

We can't charge more for a person to work in an unfinished attic than in a crawl space just because, to look at the issue of the unfinished floor, he has to keep from falling through the ceiling but does not have to worry about floating up between the floor joists when he is in the crawl space!

Let's say i am in the attic of a two-story house and I crawl out over the foyer, where the drop would be twenty feet instead of 10. The rate does not go up. This actually happened, and it was all the more surprising because I was actually walking on the ceiling joists, and there was only insulation, no drywall, on the ceiling below me. A piece of insulaton fell out and i was looking down 20 feet. Made me glad I walk attics carefully!

Ernie:

I was unaware that there is an offical rule that says if it's an attic it doesn't have a finished floor and if it does have a finished floor its another story. Seriously, what the hell are you talking about, Ernie? Many attics have plywood laid so that you can't fall through the ceiling.

*In my opinion*, it is reasonable to charge different rates for work that requires different skills\employees, regardless of whether it is in an attic or a crawl space or a whore house. I used the attic as an example only. I would not charge more because an attic is hot and not as fun to work in. I would charge more if the work in the attic required a higher skill level\higher salaried employee, in which case a different hourly rate would be in effect.

This is not uncommon and is done in many industries. That's why unions charge one rate for an apprentice and one rate for a journeyman, law firms charge one rate for a partner and another rate for an associate etc.

It appears we agree and you just didn't like my example of using an attic.

This message was edited by QQQ on 11/11/02 00:10.14.

You've just been made aware Q - It takes special people to make all the rules that keep "das people" in line. I'm surprised you weren't popped much earlier for violating the "NO HUMOR" edict.


Some can only drive by a dwelling of that caliber.... and dream.


I put plywood in the area all around my attic access and cut pieces to form walkways to areas that might need to be accessed by tradesmen.

So should I 'fess up to the Tax Assessor's office and dutifilly have my property taxes increased because I've effectively increased the floorspace of my living quarters by adding another story?

I knew there was a reason I come to this site. Thanks for the education and the laughs. LOL

JJP

Yes, ma'am, I am certified for that!

Once again, everyone is right. If you believe you can't charge more to go in an attic then you are right. Personally, I consider an attic to be dangerous physically and to my health and extremely uncomfortable to boot. I explain this to clients and charge them a higher rate for the high wire act and they generally agree. If they don't it's their perogative. There are plenty of attics. It is whatever the market will bear and whatever you deem your time to be worth. I have more work than I can handle, raising my prices is the only logical thing to do.

I'm one to believe that our job is one that gets us in these "Icky Yucky" places...It may be a crappy part of the job, but it is part of it. And what's with all the complaints about attics? An open attick is a wirers DREAM. Hell, it might be hotter than 2 rats humping in a wool sock in the summer, and colder than a witches tit in the winter, but it makes hiding the wires much faster and efficient. The olny thing I don't like is going up on a roof. If the pitch is too steep, or it a slate roof, or if there is any ice, I just don't go up. If my boss wants the job done reeally bad, then he can go up himself or hire someone to replace me and do it. But more money will never make it safer.

Hey all,
To change the subject alittle bit. The company I work for charges the same rate for a rough-in or a retro or a final or programming and so on... But this is more directed at the rough in stage. When a job requires to guys to complete it faster my sales staff bitches when we tell them we want 2 guys on it, cause it doubles the cost of the pre wire. Does it make sense to charge a reduced rate for rough in's that need 2 guys. That way my sales guys can put more labor into the bids.

-JJ

No, it make sense for your management to set up a system that helps insure that jobs are being bid correctly in the first place.

If a job is being bid correctly, if 8 man hours are required to complete the job, that equals 4 hours for 2 men or 8 hours for 1 man (of course it never works out exactly that way but that's the principle). Why should the salesman have to include more labor if two men are being used? The job should go (ABOUT) twice as fast. This assumes of course that the project requires two men and that they both are really doing work and one isn't just acting as a gopher (and even having a gopher can speed things up a LOT if the main installer is good).


This message was edited by QQQ on 11/16/02 17:07.17.