The instructions for Vantage and Lutron show the wire on the outside of the box coming out between the box and the drywall. The position of the wires on the Lutron Dimmers puts it outside of the box, they are not inside the box... The Vantage instructions also show that you need to bring the wires out on the outside of the box..

Never put the low voltage wires inside the box...

Look at the diagram on the last page:

[Link: dealer.vantagecontrols.com]

This is EXACTLY the topic at hand! Maybe we should contact the manufacturers and get them to point out what section of the NEC says that their stuff is legal. They oughta be pretty aware of it!


You do realize, though, that to put in a Grafik eye with an extension box, you have to run low voltage wire from the extension box into the high voltage box that contains the Grafik eye. All this does is move the place that is being asked about. It is a great solution otherwise, but does not address the code issue. Presumably they would know the section of the code that allows this.

Yes I see the diagram, thanks for that. Vantage's note on the subject says that it complies with NEC 725-45, but that IF it doesn't comply with local standards, there's a workaround.

You can get into arguments with some inspectors regardless of NEC. In chicago we have met with many inspectors and tried to show them some of the key documents in the Lutron Homeworks spec book which show it is legal but some still won't buy it and once you let the cat out of the bag on what you are trying to do, they will be looking for it everytime. Sometimes, it all depends on the inspector.

I agree, it is better to not even make it an issue, even if it is in the NEC, if the local inspector is holding up the construction process because of it while you try to fight your case, the builder is going to be PISSED at guess who.. not the inspector, thats for sure.

In St. Louis (birthplace of the IBEW) you are not allowed to even think about running a low voltage wire in a high voltage box. NEC or no NEC! You can quote from NEC 1999 or NEC 2005, but the bottom line is what the inspector (who might have been an union electrician at one time) says goes. If you read the fine print in the NEC, BOCA, or International Building Codes it says it is up to the interpretation of the individual inspector. ALSO, each municipality does NOT have to adapt from year to year. In fact, most cities around me are on NEC 2002.

I have argued this with Lutron, Vantage, OnQ, HAI, etc. They can point anything out in that 4 inch book they want, but if the inspector says no it is no. Nine times out of ten the electrician is going to be the one that rats you out.

With that being said, if you can get with the electrician before hand, and he will work with you then you should have an easy time of convincing the inspector it is okay. When I say the electrician I mean the guy in the field pulling the wire, not the guy driving the shiny, new Ford F350 around the subdivision with the logo on the side of the truck.

Here I come to save the dayyyyyyyy!

Okay, how about Art. 725.55 (From the '02 NEC. ( Hell, we just adopted the '02 this past November!)):

725.55 Separation from Electric Light, Power, Class 1, Non-Power-Limited Fire Alarm Circuit Conductors, and Medium Power Network-Powered Broadband Communications Cables.

(D) Associated Systems Within Enclosures. Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors in compartments, enclosures, device boxes, outlet boxes, or similar fittings shall be permitted to be installed with electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and medium power networkpowered broadband communications circuits where they are introduced solely to connect the equipment connected to Class 2 and Class 3 circuits, and where (1) or (2) applies:

(1) The electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and medium power network-powered broadband communications circuit conductors are routed to maintain a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) separation from the conductors and cables of Class 2 and Class 3 circuits.

(2) The circuit conductors operate at 150 volts or less to ground and also comply with one of the following:

a. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuits are installed using Type CL3, CL3R, or CL3P or permitted substitute cables, provided these Class 3 cable conductors extending beyond the jacket are separated by a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) or by a nonconductive sleeve or nonconductive barrier from all other conductors.

b. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors are installed (D) Associated Systems Within Enclosures. Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors in compartments, enclosures, device boxes, outlet boxes, or similar fittings shall be permitted to be installed with electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and medium power networkpowered broadband communications circuits where they are introduced solely to connect the equipment connected to Class 2 and Class 3 circuits, and where (1) or (2) applies:

(1) The electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire alarm, and medium power network-powered broadband communications circuit conductors are routed to maintain a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) separation from the conductors and cables of Class 2 and Class 3 circuits.

(2) The circuit conductors operate at 150 volts or less to ground and also comply with one of the following:

a. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuits are installed using Type CL3, CL3R, or CL3P or permitted substitute cables, provided these Class 3 cable conductors extending beyond the jacket are separated by a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) or by a nonconductive sleeve or nonconductive barrier from all other conductors.

b. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors are installed as a Class 1 circuit in accordance with 725.21.

Nardo, in the '99, check Art. 725.54

ok larry in english what does it mean?

ed

This is one of the reasons for the xantech J-Box Blaster. Pre-wire on an opposite wall of the switches, and it will then shoot the IR code at the spacer or Graffik Eye. No worries about the NEC Codes.

Mike

Bump....so Larry will see this.

Just got done with a meeting with the St. Louis County inspection Dept about 2 weeks ago. Whole bunch of new changes coming this year....Doing a job out in your neck of the woods right now..Dardenne Prairie.

Thanks Larry.. My state still has 1996 adopted.

It ALWAYS all depends on the inspector. There is some legal phrasing somewhere saying something much more elegant than, but basically "in case of confusion, whatever the inspector in the field says is, is."

I suppose you could piss off that inspector by challenging him or going over his head for a reversal, but that is just a way to cause yourself problems in the future. The best thing would be to not make an issue of it.


That works fine until someone stands up or walks by the sensor during a macro. I suppose you could mount the blaster at 7 feet and all the equipment across the room also at seven feet.

I haven't looked, but perhaps someone else will have seen this...

Anyone know of a clear plastic box divider. This would allow for a single box. You could place the blaster in the low voltage portion, and allow it to blast through the clear plastic divider to the IR controlled switch.

Such a low tech solution... so unlike me, now the only question is, does anyone make one?