We use the A-Bus (actually we now use the OnQ/Legrand LyriQ Cat5 audio system) a lot. It is a good, releiable system that is easy to use, and easy to install. It is not a "rock the house" type of system. Basically loud enough for background music. But for the 100+ installs that we have done, I have not had a customer complain about the volume.

I would agree that in-ceilings would be preferable to in-walls, but in this situation you are limited. I could go into much detail about knowing where to drill, speaker placement etc. But if you have done this type of work in new construction you should know the answers yourself. If the house is relatively new (within 10 years), construction priniciples are the same as what you are seeing in new construction. I would suggest a very good stud finder. You might as well line up a very good taper right now because you will cut holes in the wrong places.

I would also agree that you need to run 16/4 (or 14/4) to the keypad along with the Cat5 for any future needs. We don't use the siamese cable because we can buy the seperate cable for a lot less.

DO NOT place a speaker above the keypad unless that is where it will sound the best (which is usually not the case). Place the speakers where they will fill the room with sound.

We use that Sherwood receiver for A-Bus systems all the time. You can't beat the price, and it has plenty of inputs. A-Bus will take anything that outputs to RCA! I would also invest in some good universal remotes, like the one that Russound sells.

As far as price. Ultimate Electronics has a flyer in the store that says they will install a 2 room A-Bus system for $999 without speakers. That is the basic A-Bus hub, 2 keypads, and wiring. Our 4 room systems (in new construction) run about $3,500 with Boston speakers. And yes, we make a profit on that.

tschulte,

Thanks for all the info. You're right about placing the speakers where they will sound best. If I am luckly maybe one of the rooms might sound best right over the volume, but if not no big deal. I need to read all the info I can about snaking, because I don't have the experience in that department yet. I think for open walls your price is good, but not for closed walls. To me, the hardest part is getting the wires to where they need to go. When walls are open, it's a breeze. When they are closed, it can be a nightmare.

Have any of you had any horror stories setting up these abus systems? I have read elsewhere about distortion and hum issues as well as not being loud enough.

I understand your hesitation, but retros should not take much longer than new construction. Wait, let me put that another way. The retro you are describing should not take much longer than if the walls were not already drywalled.

To find where to drill, either use landmark (vent, electric, etc.), or a small drill bit between the baseboard and the carpet. If it is all hardwood or tile then you will have to use the knock method, or a large magnet upstair and a small piece of metal downstairs. Because you are using in-walls you could also cut that hole first, and then with a long drill bit drill down into the basement.

I would suggest going to Labor Saving Devices or The Training Department for help on this.

tschulte,

What is Labor Saving Devices and The Training Department? If they are places to give me the tricks of snaking, I'd like to go! I think once I get used to it, I'll be ok, I just don't know the tricks that make it easier. Thanks for your help.

Price out a 4-zone Sonus... Lots of Power, minimal wire running, very cool remote unit. If your cousin is a Macintosh - Fan he'll like the design and cosmetics of the remote.

The Abus, while it will work, uses pretty wimpy amps for each zone... which is fine for "background sound"...

The Abus amps (someone correct me if I'm wrong), aren't they in the kepads unit that go into the wall???
A little scary if they heat up or flame-out... although I haven't heard of this happening.

Mr. Stanley,

Thanks for helping. My cousins are not really into macs, and don't even know how to play mp3's from their pc. They are looking for something really basic that plays with a cd player or receiver. I'll keep the sonos in mind for the future. It looks really nice.

http://www.lsdinc.com/

This will get you the tools and techniques to do retros.

I can't find the website for The Training Department, but all they have is video instructions on how to do retros.

Thanks T!

I'm sure the designers gave a little thought to this, as they must have sold millions by now!!

It's OK, works well, just know it's limited. It's probably fine for this app but make sure you wire the speaker cables through the keypads for the future.

L$D is great for tools and tips.

Good luck, some good advice here too.

To add to this, I use a piece of piano wire(a really small gauge piece of round steel cut at an angle) to use as a reference when I have hard wood floors. You can also use a steel coat hanger. The same applies to carpet (but you can use a larger bit due to the carpet being able to hide the hole)To do this, take the reference bit, place it in your drill and treat it as a drill bit drilling at the joint of the shoe mold and base molding. Leave it there, go downstairs and you should have a general idea of where it should be, find your reference point, move over to the inside of the wall and drill up. I always drill into the wall first so I can slide a glow rod up to see if there are any obstructions before I commit to a speaker location. Good luck

This is a recipe for destruction. Keep in mind he's a novice and I have seen seasoned installers f-up this method because its hard to control. My brother ripped out a patch of his hair doing this, Hahahahaha. It was funny as hell.

Did you ever notice how funny serious things are when you are on a job? I remember one time moving furniture with my cousin, we were moving a piano to a lower floor via steps, and the guy in the back holding the piano lost his grip, and I saw him and the piano fly down the stairs. It was in slow motion. Thank God he didn't get seriously hurt, but it was one of the funniest things I ever saw in my life! I can only imagine your brother's hair getting ripped out. You could make a movie out of some of the things that happen.

Yeah I know they had to, in order to get UL rated... Then again look at how much engineering and safety planning go into our Space Shuttles!!! S**t Happens. The best engineering, the best materials... Just the thought of those little op-amps throbbing away inside of a wall without much ventillation... I know I just paranoid, and player "Devils Advocate"!

This unit seems to supply a lot more power to the speakers than a-bus. What do you think?

[Link: channelplus.com]

tca,

it seems you need a class on CI 101, I suggest a cedia regional event or something. Honestly you will never learn or grow much if you rely on this site as your only way to guage what things should sell for or how to go about pricing a job. The school of hard knocks doesn't come cheap or easy for that matter. remember a house that is closed up has more unknowns than you can predict, therefore discuss equipment costs, a fair rate, and make sure you discuss what "time frame" the work is to be completed in. (especially if this is not yet a full time gig for you, you may get burned out on the job and choose to have fun with friends instead of finishing that stupid job...besides it's only family right.)

A guy who works for a competitor, and I swear to god this really happened...was up in an attic, hooking up the last of about 8 pair of retro's -in ceiling speakers...
as he was feeling around in the insulation for the next joist to step on, he went to take a step his foot fell short of the joist, because when he was turning himself around in the attic, he didn't notice, but the speaker wire got tangled up around his ankle, his foot went through the drywall, then he lost his balance and totally busted through.
It was above one of those high 16 to 20 foot living room ceilings... as he was falling, the wire slack tightened up, and he was literally hanging upside down, about 10 feet from the floor...The white blown-in insuallation was pouring into the room, drywall dust was all over the place, and as he was hanging there upside down, there were his elderly clients, sitting on the sofa, covered in the sh*t - looking like they had just seen a ghost! He looked over at the couple and said... "Hey, it's not as bad as it looks, really"...
I nervously think about that incident EVERY time I'm in a f*%#ing attic!