Ok I am going to first dispell your beliefs on Elan

""Even simple things, like sending the system to a known channel and volume level the first time the system is turned on --which are often necessary if folks have satellite and purchase the sports packages -- are impossible with Elan. ""

That is so easy to do with Elan...and can be accomplished several ways.

""The fact is most of you have the ability to pursuade a client to write a check; most have neither the education nor the ability to program. Pre-engineered systems like Lutron, Elan or C4 are the best are all most of you can manage.""

I have sales people for that, I am the programmer/installer... Elan systems are far from 'pre-engineered' The software aspect is a tad limited, but is in the process of being upgraded with "Elan Tools" to work with the wireless via, and will have most of the functionality found in crestron, but also the ability to utilize some built in things to save time...I am more than capable of programing 232, C++ and php...Would I rather not have to? Sure if I can be making moeny elsewhere why not? Its about effciency...

As far as the Lutron deal, I know lutron is persuing it with Crestron, so I would assume I am not hte only one that thinks they ripped off the look of the dimmer. Go look at them...thats all i will say...

I will sum this up with obviously you are unaware of what certain products are actually capable of, and lack the knowledge to argue it so I will leave it alone. Bring me specific examples of what Crestron can do in a small to medium type install that elan cannot and I will show you how to do it...

Brandon

How about 2 way on the 232 ports and more than 4?

New processor on the way to do just that, shipping with the wireless via. As I said to start with on a small to medium sized project.
I would say small to medium project for me entails lutron control, audio, and video switching.

Large would start to get into where the elan devices are not powerful enough to do the tasks which is where AMX comes in to play (or crestron)

With teh SC4 you can do a pool controller, thermostats, lutron control, security interface ect. The limit is how many two way devices you can use which is two per sc4. Which means security and thermostats, lutron and all the ohter 1 way devices can be shared on teh same 232 link... Elan doesnt really do any handshaking, they just loop it through in teh sc4 to trick things plugged into it. This will all change with the new processor though.


B

What? only 2 ports 2way? all share one port? "pool controller, thermostats, lutron control, security interface" Why would you control HVAC or any one of these devices one way? You might as well use an IR remote and save yourself the hastle. How do you know if someone has walked up to the thermostat and changed something if you don't get feedback? How do you ge feedback from Lutron so that you can have lighting keypads control basic audio functions like volume or room off when you turn off the lights? you might as well walk up to the damn thing at least you would know whether or not the thing was really changing. From the sound of it you really can't do anything that you would want to do with Elan.

Oh man I can see the shark teeth already. Elan fishy "swim away as fast as you can"

"I will sum this up with obviously you are unaware of what certain products are actually capable of, and lack the knowledge to argue it so I will leave it alone. Bring me specific examples of what Crestron can do in a small to medium type install that elan cannot and I will show you how to do it..."

You shouldn't have pored the blood into the water.

Alan:
I still have several of the CLX-120-N-4 modules out there and love them (very reliable).
I have not taken the time to learn D3 yet (I need to) as I generally use Vantage and as noted can use the "fake feedback" (LED status) in fact I use Vantage for all of my timers, even to trigger Crestron.
Having worked with all but the latest Elan product I would agree that it was okay for its time....but.....
Elan still is the only one to do an easy Doorbell interface (best feature they had).
My current doorbell of choice is the Aurora Multimedia IOS (digital recorder/playback) with 50 serial addressable memorys (I steal the sounds from the internet).

Let me correct my statement.. I ment to place a period where it said thermostats and security 2 way and the other 1 way. I typed in a hurry and should have proofread. Sorry for the confusion

So basically Lutron, Pool controls, ect will be on the 1 way link, but the two '2' way devices would be the Thermostats and Security. Really the only things that need 2 way on a small to medium project.

B

i ment to also add that I would have used the elan to initiate the lights off and power down command, hence the lack of need for the lutron to intiate it. (i deal with mostly vias instead of a keypad and say a seetouch keypad)

Hence no need for 2 way command for the lutron...

B

IMO, using Elan for HVAC control is severely limited. It becomes a significant investment with all the Aprilaire pieces needed and then it cannot even trigger a "set point" at a specific time. $30.00 Home Depot t-stats even do that.

Without two-way, pool control is also lacking. It would be nice to display the temperature of the spa without having to walk outside to check it.

We are Elan dealers and move a good amount. However, the lack of a system clock has held us back. We've been waiting a long time for it. I know it's on its way but its not here yet.

We've made a decision to NOT even offer these integration points until we have a real solution. We instead focused on using it where it is strong. But leaving money on the table is not going to last long.

At the last TRIO(dealer conference) we participated in a tech session to ID and rank 1-way and 2-way serial drivers that they should write to coincide with the new Via! and controller. They promised to put A LOT of resource on it just after they get the hardware out. This is critical for them to be successful. I also made the point that dealers need to be able to easily create their own drivers too. It MUST be a much simpler process that it is currently.

IMO, Elan has a very limited window to get their new panel(s) out and deliver the goods. I hope they can succeed. There are a lot of great people there. Their support of us has been outstanding.

Adagio is going to give Crestron dealers a potent weapon to take on the mid-range competition. Get your flak jacket on or get a new weapon...I know what our plan will be...

George P.

Well the 'old' HD has a time clock just so ya know, but you will need the automation card to make it happen, but your right that most of the new products dont, at least you dont have access to it. I was however surprised that the new s12 and s6 did not, but you throw out a valid point. The good thing for me is that there are very few times u need a time clock event on the audio.

I totally agree that ELAN needs to get on the ball with their new stuff, since the wireless VIA has been in the works for 2 years. The good thing is the ALPHA version of it is out and about, so its finally geting there. There new keypads are actually pretty slick, I cant disclose anything about it, but its going to be pretty neat.

The old HD you could do all sorts of stuff, Surprising to me its still a viable product 12 years after its inception.

Very good post george, and I agree the 232 stuff is limited, but for a small to medium project its more than adaquate.

Where U located?

B

How about making a correction on an Elan system from your office? You can do that with Crestron. Very handy if say....the cable companies change channel lineups and you have macros with channel numbers in them or if you have created a favorites page.

One of a few reasons why Crestron and Elan aren't in the same league.

Or one-way serial from an IR port. Ethernet port to control equipment ( CD servers, IPOD, DVD servers, DVR's, Homeworks. One touch panel to control multiple areas, as in Breakfast niche, Kitchen and DR. Indirect text and .wav file allows client to know which area he is controlling. Multiple 2 way serial ports to go with those IR ports. Email informing you that projection lamp needs changing. All of this without requiring a video switcher just to use a touch panel to control what Crestron can do with indirect text. I simple system can be constructed from one touch panel, a few RF remotes and a keypad or two. Add to that the fact that you do not need a page/door bell unit and I think the one Crestron processor does a whole lot more than the Elan.

Thermostats that do all that the Elan's cannot. Lighting system that does not occupy any serial port, including wireless. Ability to use any device to control any device rather than kludge the solution so that Elan controls the all off. By the way, full control and feedback over your Lutron/Vantage/Lightouch system. Ability to send delayed codes to digital displays only on initial turn on and display turn on status to end user.

It is amazing that this is even an argument. It would be akin to saying that a Nascar could compete in F1.

Them are fighting words here in Daytona.
Whats wrong with
"left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left" "left".
Oh yeah, dont forget "left".
And of course there is that almost kinda right coming out of pit road.
The 24 hours is the race to see.

Personally, all of these "CRESTRON ROCKS" comments are just making me wish I had the line....

Damn... as a programmer (ie php, database, flash actionscript, perl, etc)... I see the possibilities as endless... and very cool...

Wish I could get some sample gear to play with!... Lol... STOP! Don't spam me with "YOU NEED TRAINING!"...

I know, I know, I know... but Crestron still seems like the best way to go, for those who can Do It Right, and those who can afford to buy it.