I am about to supervise and install for a development. I get total control as far as sound, phone, and automation offerings from our company. It is a semi high end community($500,000-1,000,000). Unfortunately I have never delt with home automation. I can make it work if they can dream it. I am looking for any insite into this. Anything from possible products, to what types of things they can control, ect. Any advice can help.

No offense, but you appear to be in way over your head. If you have never done any automation, how will you be able to supervise what you don't know and install it? It would be different , maybe, if you were an established installer, and one of your existing clients was willing to be a guinea pig for an install to help you get up to speed, but an entire development is not where you go to cut your teath.

Let me make sure I got ya right, you have no experience in home automation but you want to supervise and install said products for a whole development.
Are you related to timshows?
You might want to do a search for home automation, back about a year.

What have you looked at??

WOW.... I hope your company has deep pockets and great insurance. Jumping into a project like this with blinders on has bankrupted some very good companies in the past.

Most home automation clients have very little imagination.... YOU have you be able to sell the product and tell them why they need it. I cant remeber the last time someone called me and said they needed an AMX system.....

HAI with an Elan VIA is NOT automation in a Million dollar home.... Its Frustration..............

DOnt forget the ipod docks at each keypad location...............

A bunch of phoey!

This is not rocket science. He said he's installing and supervising, not designing it. If he can do low-voltage/AV and he has a design to go by then I say he's in good shape.

If, however raiden, you are trying to design it yourself - don't. Hire a sub-c that knows his stuff to do it for you.

It seems to me you're looking for ideas that can then be incorporated into the design but not actually designing it. There are several books about this to give you plenty of ideas on Amazon.com etc.

One good rule of thumb for large developments is to think twice about automating things that move or have water, i.e garage doors, plasma tv lifts, jacuzzi's etc. If done for an individual these can be great but for a whole development can be tricky as there are liability issues that the developers may not wish to deal with. At the very least check first with some legal counsel.

Otherwise, if you have all your business legalities in order and your project management skills are pretty good I say go for it!

I understand your concern. That is the main reason I came to you guys. At some point in your career someone taught these things to you and I will have to learn them on my own. I have time to scope things out and play with devices prior to the breaking ground of the development. I supervise the majority of our installs now. We are handling about 5 developments which I have done simple things like Nuvo. I also support all our customers who use Niles system. Someone is gonna do it and I am the only one. I wanna get out of the low end junk and move us forward.

Finally some faith. Thank you. I really just found out today about this and this has been the first place I came. We have never done any home automation yet. If I need to go seek some sort of education then that is what I will do. I do prewire's, I handle anthing that involves electricity. I have wired a few houses in respects to electricity(one was about 100 years old). We handle a lot of large accounts like retirement communities, schools, horse farms ect. The my boss will assist in the home auto stuff, but I am asked to scope out products. I assume we will layout a couple of packages with options for the customers. The boss and I will design the systems I will make sure the wiring is done properly, on time, and do the finals. The homeowners will probably have little to no knowledge of what they want.

We are handling

HAI now supports Nuvo. HAI is always a good start. Visit Worthington Distribution (worthdist.com), especially the forum at [Link: worthingtonsolutions.com]
You'll get a little more love over there.

Take a look at Contol4:

http://www.control4.com/

You are in the same spot that I was years ago. Dream big with no one to show you how to make these dreams happen. "There's gotta be a way." My advice to you is to start small. Automate a home theater (screen, projector, audio components), then learn how to tie in the lighting control in that one room, then work your way to more rooms and more control (HVAC, sprinklers, etc). Don't dive into it all at once. The programming alone can cost you hundreds of valuable hours of your best tech. Good luck.

A bunch of phoey!

This is not rocket science. He said he's installing and supervising, not designing it. If he can do low-voltage/AV and he has a design to go by then I say he's in good shape.

If, however raiden, you are trying to design it yourself - don't. Hire a sub-c that knows his stuff to do it for you
|


Once more I find myself in agreement with Impacq. Hiring a sub is insufficient. Let's say you hire me. I may tell you to do a, b, and c. But successfully installing an automation system in very much a different animal than installing a distributed audio system. It is understanding not only what is possible but what is cost effective. Who programs this system? Who trouble shoots it? Who is ultimately responsible? If I design the sysetm it surely a'int me. And having worked as a system designer/programmer for thrid parties I can tell you that I will not work for a set price. Only hourly. When the serial cables are improperly terminated or any issues with equipment occur it's all time and materials. You pay me and the clock begins to run. When the money runs out you fill up the tank or I stop. It is this way because experience has taught that most problems with the system will not be programming but installation and my time will be part of that process.
|
|
It seems to me you're looking for ideas that can then be incorporated into the design but not actually designing it. There are several books about this to give you plenty of ideas on Amazon.com etc.
|
|

Books are useless. Understanding automation is a fuction of experience. Often you cannot tell from a protocol what will and will not work. Pioneer, for example, has at least four serial protocols for it's plasmas and one of the most stupid of secret handshakes to get into the installation menu on its displays. If all you did was IR you would have so much fun figuring that out. How about lighting? Feedback can be a real problem and knowing which subsystem makes a difference. Security? Most panels seem to offer integration but only a few actually permit it. Even if you are experienced it can take more than a little time to make the interface work.

See the problem is not only writing code that works but also constructing a usable GUI for the client.
|
|
One good rule of thumb for large developments is to think twice about automating things that move or have water, i.e garage doors, plasma tv lifts, jacuzzi's etc. If done for an individual these can be great but for a whole development can be tricky as there are liability issues that the developers may not wish to deal with. At the very least check first with some legal counsel.
|
|

Good points but ones someone without experience might not know. Nor do I think that plasma lifts will be something found in each unit but may be part of some customized solution for a particular client. But we could take issue about atuomatiing pools and jacussies. Depending on the pool system that may not be an issue as in the case of Jandi or Pool Com. But using relay boxes can also perform similiar actions but you better understand that system's fuctionality. Turning off a pool filter too soon after a pool heater has been engaged can cause big issues. Not so different from pulling the plug on a DLP without letting it cool down.
|
|
Otherwise, if you have all your business legalities in order and your project management skills are pretty good I say go for it!
|
|
No is the most important word in the automation business. Understanding what can be done and what should be done are two different concepts and adding profitability to the equasion makes it still more complicated.

Alan

See, now, you learn something new every day. I control my spa & pool via Crestron relays, and didn't take that into account. I'll be changing that one right away....

Thanks, Alan.

You are getting some very good advice here...

For one, you have left this WAY too vague for anyone to offer any specific advice.

When you say development, do you mean individual single family homes?? Townhomes/Row homes?? Mid-rise or high-rise condo units??

OK, once that is established, do you need to automate or control any of the systems for the common areas like Pool/spa rooms?? Exercise rooms?? Lobby?? Will there be full-time or part-time staff that need to access the control system??

Hanging speakers and wiring up a structured wiring panel is one thing, effectively selling automation and then delivering what you sold is a long way from where you are.

Partner up with an existing company that offers automation systems and create some kind of mutually beneficial relationship.

This message was edited by 2nd rick on 08/17/05 17:59 ET.

OK both you and I have made some assumptions based upon his vague post. You've assumed he doesn't know s#!t and I assumed he does. Part of my rant was that he needs his project management skills intact. That includes assessing projects beforehand and KNOWING, not guessing, what is realistic to acheive. His sub-c if properly selected will help him acheive this attainable goal and be savvy on what is marketable and profitable. Remember, his SOW is not to design so the remaining blurb about protocols and handshakes SHOULD be the domain of the designer.



OK this one may bite you in the ass, but we'll let it pass. It's a context thing right?



Again this is merely the function of a well selected programming sub-c. Not rocket science.




We just told him.


Good advice!


|

You are absolutely correct, but at this rate there would only be grandfathered-in automation experts. Let the guy try. He may fail, but my guess is he'll come out somewhere close to breaking even, he'll take a few more meds than he does right now and he'll be a lot wiser and maybe willing to take on the next job at a higher level and make some real money that will lead him to some prosperity.

That's the fairy tale right?