I would like to know what people are selling here OTHER than Panasonic PBX systems. Requirements:

1. Caller ID stored on all phones (not just one).
2. EASY to use caller ID, just like a caller ID box from Radio Shack or on most Best Buy phones. The user should be able to press arrow buttons to cycle through the callers and maybe a delete button if they want to delete the call. There should not be a need to shift back and forth between screens to see time/date/name/number info for the same call.
3. Not set out of the box to play backgroung music if the number 1 is pressed (hopefully you know what I am talking about).
4. Easy to use paging and intercom. For instance, if the system as been setup so that when a handset is picked up an outside line is grabbed (rather than "grabbing" intercom), all they should have to do is press one button that says "PAGE", they should NOT have to press "INTERCOM" and then "PAGE".

In short, a high quality VERY easy to use phone system for the technically challenged.

Panasonic digital sets up the way you would like except for the CID.....your best bet is to install a separate CID box for ease of use.....if you use all display phones you will see the internal CID but will only save on one extension, also will work best if used in conjunction with a panasonic voice mail system

I agree with DBD,The Panasonic has a myriad of capabilities, but some really stupid ommisions. For such a flexible phone system the CID always causes problems with the customer. "why do I need a seperate Caller id box after I just paid $xxxx.xx for this fancy phone system? "

QQQ

With the 624 THIRD version out there are some changes. Now the Caller ID Indicate is 96 instead of 6, and 97 instead of 7. The caller ID now offically sucks on the Pana. I can't tell you how many problems and loops our customers now need to perform. Pressing a button to scroll between screens is not something I care for.

I'm sure many dealer will be KSU shopping at CEDIA.

Dave

Observations:
1. I don't want to be seen as a defender of Panasonic, but I think they do a nice job.
2. Panasonic is aware of some of the issues regarding caller id. (the answered call not storing caller id, for example, makes an answering machine awkward)
3. the artist formerly known as lucent, Avaya, makes a nice phone system. It has personality issues as well. (two doorstations instead of four; using extensions for doorstations; very spendy cordless phones; more)
Avaya does have two lines of info on their display phones, and will put name/number info on with one pass.
4. Digital Panasonic is an alternative, but remember, Panasonic requires certification to buy it. All of us are aware that you can buy it from Joe's discount house of phones (a psuedonym, by the way. Place your own into the space). The issue there is that Panasonic does not supply programming manuals with the digital ksu's; you must go through class to get certified, and upon completion, they give you manuals. If you don't have the certification, you will be unhappy with Panasonic corp. tech support, since they won't help at all. If you have a service issue, make sure that "joe's" will take care of you, because again, Panasonic will only service certified dealers. Now, if you're certified, that's quite a comfort. If you're not, you should know this before you expose your business and your customer to this.
For a real bonus, consider the non-Panasonic produced programs that exsist in the market place that might not match the version of the ksu you're using. (again, courtesy of "Joe's") Know before your buy is the best advice.......

This message was edited by Fred Harding on 09/09/02 08:44.24.

DBDElectronics and Fred:

Thanks for your input but Panasonic digital operates the same in these regards as the analog systems. There is no difference.

I am not bashing Panasonic. We have never had a Panasonic KSU fail, NEVER. That is a pretty incredible track record. But their interface leaves something to be desired.

AT&T which then became Lucent which then became Avaya is one of the products I was hoping for feedback on but I am open to anything. The fact that Avaya is on their third name change reminds me of AMX/PHAST/Panja/AMX and makes me wonder what the future of the product will be.

Back to my original post - is there anything out there OTHER than Panasonic that you guys are using and recommending.

I don't know anything about PBX's , but have you thought of Nortel. I know the PBX we use at our location (and I think most of the locations in our company) is a Nortel. I know the person who takes care of that, so if you have a specific question I can ask her for you.

I have been on the hunt for a better phone system other than the 624 with no luck. I have installed many of them and as said, the caller ID sucks but they don't break down.

What to do?

I have used Communique by DSC in a few applications and the caller ID seems to work just fine.

We switched from the Panasonic to the Avaya last year, mainly for programming features. All programming can be done on a computer. This gives us the backup and remote programming options that we need.

Caller ID is OK. You can only automatically log all calls on 1 phone. However, you can log all unanswered calls on all system phones. You can manually log answered calls if necessary. Not perfect, but OK.

I don't know what you are refering to about pressing 1 and getting background music.

The learning curve on the programming is short but steep. For example, figuring out what Avaya calls the "flash" feature is not fun ("recall" for those in the woods). And cordless phone programming is a nightmare until you find the right page in the manual

The cordless phones are pricey and they don't log caller ID.

Avaya Tech support is non existant but our distributor is pretty good at helping out.

Overall we like the system and are not going back to Panasonic any time soon.

I got no feedback on the DSC Communique. Has anyone else used this? or is it a completely different animal from the Panasonic. It seems to have all the features you've been discussing.

B&O's Beocom 6000 phones are pretty good. Its a little confusing to use call waiting but it sync's phonebooks and caller ID between handsets (and you can get all sorts of colors)

--
David

I have a BizFone system and it is terrific! www.bizfone.com

Anthony, in response to your last post, I want:
1. Caller ID stored on the system and accessible from every phone. Unlike Panasonic, which only stores caller ID on one telephone.
2. Caller ID should be very easy to use with name/number/date/time info appearing on one screen. The user should not have to shift through multiple screens just to access caller ID data.
3. I want to be able to program the system to grab an idle line when the caller picks up a handset, not have to dial 9 or press a line button (this can be done with Panasonic). But if the caller picks up the handset (and it grabs an outside line) but instead wants to page throughout the house or intercom another room, I just want them to be able to press one programmed button to accomplish that (this cannot be done with Panasonic, once an outside line is grabbed you have to put the phone back into “intercom” mode by pressing the intercom button before pressing the page button will work.
4. Basically, I want it to be hard for a user to accidentally screw up the system. For instance, Panasonic comes out of the box so that when you press the # 1 key BGM (background music) is turned on (listen to music through the speakerphone). But if you press # 1 and don’t have an AM/FM tuner (or whatever) hooked up to the system, you here low level static coming from the speakerphone just like having the volume turned up on a preamp that has no source selected. So people constantly accidentally activate BGM and then think something is wrong because they hear static coming from the phone.
5. I would like a clock that changes automatically with daylight saving time and/or is very easy to set for the customer.

Nortel is a line I am definitely interested in but I was under the impression they only want huge dealers that can do a million a year. Any info on that would also be appreciated.


This message was edited by QQQ on 09/14/02 12:23.52.

Thanks to everyone so far.

So far I have Avaya, Nortel, B&O, Communique and Bizfone. I am going to look at them. I looked at the Communique web site and it does look interesting. It can also trigger X-10 commands from the phone keypad which could create some interesting possibilities. You could locate the phone system near a Crestron and use an X-10 to RS-232 converter and control whatever you wanted in the house from your telephone. Another big plus would be any system that could generate RS-232 from a pre-programmed button press – you could do all sorts of things with that.

Anyone tried Vodavi? Keep the info and suggestions coming.