Hehe, thanks Doco, but that 700 twin's an ATV...I've heard a few stories about those too, but I am confident in my riding abilities, and I don't take unnecessary risks. It IS afterall, still a 7 thousand dollar machine...why risk it?

Check Centralite...

centralite.com

I you really want to put in a nice lighting system check this out-
[Link: litetouch.com]

Caheck out Premise Systems "SYS" you can get it anywhere, the support the software platform. It has been called the "logical Crestron" or "poor man's Crestron" We often send tech-savvy clients down this path.

Every client we deal with pays retail. If they want to save a buck or two they can dial 10-10 220 or put in a bid @ ebay.

If we dont plan it, wire it, install it, program it we wont service it. If the client makes any changes to the system on his own the warranty is void. We will continue to service the system @ time + materials.

I understand where your coming from. I also understand/have experienced the nightmares/potential nightmares when dealing with automation products.

Crestron is the best and requires the best when it comes to installation and service.

Premise Systems is cool but it aint Crestron.

I'll weigh in with STALL IN. It flies in the face of logic to ask what the price of something is, and then assume that the "actual" price is always less. Very, very common, but not a given.

Also, the analogy to insurance is weak. Insurance companies don't fix weird problems and provide that fine-tuned feature from their 1-800 desks; they negotiate on the repair and cut you a check.

Buying Crestron from a dealer that is interested in making the sale regardless of the selling price is perilous; unlike STALL IN I do hired gun work to fix what the previous low bidder couldn't/wouldn't/said was impossible, and charge the client appropriately. To draw my own analogy, and to refer to my own painful experience, being operated on a second time hurts more, and costs more too.

You might be able to get retail where you're at, but many places won't get retail for the product they sell. Consumers in our area are savvy, and tend to do a little reading, which they think, gives them all the knowledge they need. And a lot of the competition around here practically gives away the equipment to get the job. Competing with that will always be tough.


I'm in total agreement here.


Amen! Many nights awake trying to formulate a solution to various glitches.

JJP

Why in the heck are you dumping all this cash in several different systems when a VANTAGE Automation system can do it ALL - - WIRELESS!
RS-232, RS485, IP, IR, Relay, 0-10V It can do anything a crestron system can do and you can use anybody's remote or touchscreen to interface with. The software is free, so what the heck?
Oh and you can keep the $5000 for your Crestron touchcreen and spend it a better lighting system.

Yea! A Vantage system solves all your problems and dlynn439 just volunteered to program it cheap and maintain it for free.

What a bunch of BS.

Dave

I may be late but from what i have read in the above responses all are true. That is what makes are industy so exciting. There is a hundred ways to skin a cat. This is also why we are paid well for what we do. It is very complex designing and installing several sub-systems and integrating them into one. My opinion is that Crestron has done the best job of developing the software and hardware to make this as seamless as possiable. Unfortuntaly it does take an experienced programmer and technician to make this happen. I do not know your relatives experience but if he has no crestron or integration experience you may spend more money in the long run than just paying a professional now. My company specializes in the design, installaion and programming for a total solution. If you should need to contact me please fell free to call Dan, 772-633-2433 or e-mail me, [email protected] .

You no longer need to be good with PC's to seamlessly compete with crestron gear (I know crestron dealers and installers will take me to task on this but its my firm belief and real world experience)...

With a HTPC you have source component for DVD / HDTV / Multi room compatible audio.. This is world class scaling for high res projectors etc and now with the envy 24ht chipped soundcards (or the M-Audio 1010 if you are heavily into the high end balanced output side) it is competeing with the big boys there too.. Freebies like CSII multi channel decodes are a bonus etc...

With the Cinemar suites (MainLobby) you have simple easy to use GUI construction that is girder compatible for network control... Plus handles X10 natively and can control IR out with a SLinkE for legacy / consumer components that dont have RS232...

With Girder you have command and control...

With Progears you have XGA TFT touchpanels in magnesium cases with built in 802.11 for $600 USD..

Want to incoporate some PDA's then use NetRemote so you can import any of the color CCF's from this site onto your PDA with the added appeal of 2 way control so plenty of playlist / album cover art / all the benfits that this entails...

Really having looked at Panja / Crestron / etc I see no reason to side with modular incompatible systems when so much sudden and highly integrated work is being done with pure PC hardware...

Phat Phreddy
AVS HTPC moderator

Good to see you over here Phat Phreddy.

However, I beg to differ :). PC systems DO have a place in home automation along with Crestron and AMX systems. One day they may have a very big place, but right now it's a tiny, tiny slice of the market. At this point in time, they cannot provide the type of seamless control solution that a Crestron or AMX system can. However, the key question is "what do you want to accomplish". For many applications, a PC solution may be the answer. But if I was to show you the type of applications we work on every day, you would not be able to accomplish them in any practical way with a PC solution. That will change in the future. If you want to see some long debates on this subject, check out the Home Integration forum over at AVS. I won't repeat what has already beed said there.

This message was edited by QQQ on 01/06/03 11:15.

Doco:

How strong is the relationship between you, your sister and your Brother in-law? I can't help but see big problems in your future. My advice is to work with a local dealer who you feel comfortable with and stay away from the Internet for specialty items that require finess to install and factory backing to service and maintain.

Hi QQQ,

I think the problem is that so little is known about the control applications that are now available... if you have a long hard look at MainLobby and Girder (with SlinkE for IR out and / or X10) and then ask what does this solution fail at...

I am not a custom installer so I am sure there are pratfalls I am not aware of but with a little Flash programming (thats gotta be easier the crestron programming from what I read about how its a installer level skill) you have fully animated menu's and backgrounds simply and easily (does crestron allow this level of animated everything cartainly the demo I was given was more static ??)...

I have had a few trade show looks at custom solutions from the big names and had literature posted to me (I am kinda in the wilds... No one handles that stuff on my island !!) and I was distincly underwhelmed at the interfacing and costs of what I thought less impressive that I already do with throw away hardware... NOTE :I am doing this purely for the fun and so use stuff like hacked net appliances... Those $100 touchpads I did a powerbuy on etc... This is just tinkering, I would expect a custom installer to use top notch hardware /NOTE

I am still trying to think of a problem that cannot be solved this way (throw me a bone) and the look and feel I have achieved with my admitedly amature attempts is already impressive... Look at some of the screenshots in this thread

[Link: avsforum.com]

[Link: avsforum.com]

This interfaces natively with IR out control and X10 as well as having built in network support for controlling other PC's (and by extension x10 or IR out of other PCs in other locations)... anything it does not support natively it has girder and command line support so a Homeseer approach can be applied..

Then consider an integrated EPG solution into this setup (can crestron interface with an EPG to any screen ??) Which can schedule recodings on a central server for redistribution from any terminal...

[Link: avsforum.com]

[Link: avsforum.com]

I realize that as a HTPC apostle and self confessed tech junkie (I must have 10 PC's in a 3 bed home with a non PC literate or interested girlfriend) that I am not the 'normal' user... I am also aware that I am in an installers forum talking about a DIY approach so I dont expect many to agree with me :) ... There is however a very real alternative (we have only had MainLobby for 4 months since its first beta efforts and already it is incredibly powerful... With TVLobby and the Escient powerfile firewire dvd jukebox native support in DVDLobby all happening at once this is an exciting time...) I will check the AVS forum for people having issues as we tend to discuss a lot of solutions in the HTPC section...

The one issue I will give you is that multi room support for audio is currently not elegant... Multi room is built into Media Jukebox but at this point I have not been able to get Glissando or 4AM music console to support handling of multi zones... If 4AM could be pursuaded to add another tab to thier screen containing a zones section it would be really sweet to integrate that flash app to the Lobby suites... As it is you need kind of a central management location for all the audio zones rather than each zone having independant control... I am sure this will be solved in the next month or two as good Multi Zone support only appeared just before Christmas...

What with Netremote / MainLobby / etc now all interfacing and working with Girder and now that we have native IR and X10 support (along with Homeseer integration), I am struggling to find things that are not possible...

Doesn't it always seem to go into the direction of PC versus Crestron\AMX? If my system crashes, it takes a PC a hell of a lot longer to reboot than a dedicated control processor. At this point, I think it's been established that he wants to go with Crestron...I can give you a hundred reasons why to stay with that choice and a hundred and one why to run away. I am a programmer for Crestron and AMX and they are both solid platforms, but they do have their pitfalls. AMX's is their lack of good looking graphics in the g3 line (Modero will change that if you have the cash). Crestron's is that every two weeks I have to check and see what updated firmware they have! They have nice looking touchpanels and their programming isn't bad once you've done it a few times, but it is unique. Also, they are cracking down...legally...on anybody programming their systems who isn't a dealer or an authorized programmer. They've won some suits, too! My advice is to go ahead with a dedicated control system and have it professionally integrated, programmed, and serviced for your peace of mind and warranty.

Also, I don't know why RadiaRA is getting such a bad wrap? It is an RF system that you can still use a RS232 adapter for more stable control. I think it was a nice bridge between the Spacer (ideal for what I like to call "Pronto Lighting") and Grafik Eye (for the extremely complex and a whole lot of money)

Feel free to email me if you have any questions or if I can be of service.

Jon
[email protected]