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Crestron Pricing
This thread has 36 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday August 23, 2002 at 14:39
Doco
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I am in the process of building a new home and have been a big fan of remote central. I often read the posts in the custom installers lounge and alot of you seem to be dealers as well as installers. So this question goes out to you.

We have a local dealer in our town that carries Crestron and other home automation products. My brother in-law is a Florida licsened LV installer. He has several distributors that he receives products from, but none of them carry Crestron products. I am trying to center the design of my system around the use of the Crestron STX-AV2PAK-C (AV2 control system & STX-1550C 2 way RF touchpanel). The local dealer will not sell or even give me a price on this product if I do not have him do the pre-wiring on my house. Of course, I am not willing to do this because of the brother in-law's business.

I have searched the internet and most Crestron dealers do not post prices for the products. I am looking to buy this product to interface with the other systems that are being supplied and installed by the brother in-law (Enerzone HVAC Statnet Control Panel, Russound PR4Z multi-room pre-amp, Caddx security system, Teledyne Laars/Jandy RS-8 swimming pool/spa controller, Lutron Radio RA lighting control). If the cost of the Crestron units are to high, I plan to pre-wire for them and purchase at a later date, but I would like to incorporate them from the start. (Will the price of the units put me into sticker shock?)

I know that part of the sales of the unit is derived on the time for programming the system, but between the brother in-law, myself, and Crestron's helpful web page, I am sure that we could figure it out (I'm not to bad with ASCII and Hex 232 codes).

I guess as a summary on this, I am looking for any input as to where I can get pricing on this and some other Crestron products. I was thinking of calling some of the custom installers in South Florida for pricing, but fear that I will potentially run into being forced with them doing the pre-wire and install as well. Anybody's input on this would be greatly appreciated.
Post 2 made on Friday August 23, 2002 at 15:18
tsvisser
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Crestron enables someone to provide you with a total solution package. I don't think that the package you described would give you sticker shock. I will leave it to your local dealer to do the actual quotation, however.

The problem with someone selling you hardware, is that they are required to support the product. If something breaks, or if you break something, then it will have to go back to the dealer for service. You are an unknown quantity to the dealer. He is right in not wanting to sell something when he has no guarantee that it will be installed correctly and/or programmed as required.

You would basically have to write up some sort of contract or agreement that the dealer would not have to provide support in design, installation, and service only to the extent covered by waranty and that any service not covered by waranty would be paid by you. Even then, he still may not consider it worth it to make some money on a hardware only sale, only to adopt a possible headache.

I personally would go to the dealer, meet the programmer or see their finished product. Then see what type of total package they can offer. Although it may be more expensive, it may be the only possible way of making sure that it will do everything you want it to in the end.

If you do take the independent / hobbyist approach, you can find almost everything you need on ebay. Make sure that you don't pay too much, though, because it is unsupported hardware w/o waranty... buyer beware. This will save you a alot of money, but you will be responsible for getting it to work. The thing with Crestron, things will tend to not work at all until perfect, then it snaps in place. Its not like you will get partial value from the system until it is done right.

Just some of my thoughts. Hope it is helpfull.

Sincerely,

Tom Visser
[Link: imdb.com]
Post 3 made on Friday August 23, 2002 at 15:20
twix
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109
My reaction to your thread is as follows:
1) It is quite a system you plan to control and if it is new contruction why Radio RA?
2)I think it sounds like you are trying to assemble what you are able to get here and there. Maybe that is why most dealers see red flags!
Generally we will never sell a Crestron over the counter and if you were able, I doubt you could get all that stuff to work seemlessly. No offence !

As per the pre-wire, I would approach it as a"you are responsible" for any or all problems related to the trim out process . As for the Crestron, we would supply you with a turn key job and price with all software developments done in "our" house.

Hope this helps,

Twix.
Post 4 made on Friday August 23, 2002 at 16:09
QQQ
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Doco:

Retail on the AV2 is $2700.
Retail on the STX-1550C is $3600.
Retail on the STRFGWX (required RF gateway)is $1000.
Post 5 made on Saturday August 24, 2002 at 18:24
ItsColdInMN
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That was enough to put me into sticker shock....that's my new Sportsman 700 Twin right there
Post 6 made on Sunday August 25, 2002 at 11:00
tsvisser
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If you still wish to continue this project, there are many other alternative solutions for home automation. If you are really good at writing code or scripting, you could just set up a home PC, put a bunch of serial port cards in it and start writing applications to interface with each of you subsystems. Using JAVA, your could make the interface web based, allowing easy remote access. For IR interface, I would look at the Nirvis Slink-E. This will allow a good powerfull bridge between the computer and IR devices including, but not limited to the Sony CD Megachangers. X-10 tends to be a cheap way to interface with lighting, relays, and other simple subsystems.

If you have lots of free time on your hands and would enjoy a 6-month to year(s) labour of love ... your own home, look into other home automation websites that can get you started.

If computers scare you, sell the bike, sell the wife, and sell the kids and get the Crestron.

STX-1550C panels are discontinued. Replacements are STX-1700 (hard buttons added to the side and TPS graphics core).
[Link: imdb.com]
Post 7 made on Sunday August 25, 2002 at 22:29
fbarrett
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August 2002
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Call Me to discuss.However,I agree with with the posters about RadioRa, Ra was designed for retro-fit applications. Usually we can get HomeWorks installed for the same price, and you have the "real deal".

Frank
(954) 463-2216 office
Post 8 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 11:55
twix
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X-10 ? That's scary, Never do a whole home (new Construction ) using this product. Power line carriers are famous for problems. I use X-10 for limited retrofit.

Twix
OP | Post 9 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 14:24
Doco
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Thanks for all the input - I would like to respond to a couple of things though.

tsvisser - I don't know if the dealer would go for a signed contract. I can try that approach, but I think that he really only wants the business. I have purchased many of my current products through this dealer, but my brother in-law is newer competition to him. The only thing I am looking from a dealer is the warranty support. I am also leary of e-bay products and do not wish to take that route.

twix - The reason for Radio RA is the easy in future expansion. I have limited funds at this time to dump into the lighting control and only plan to do a couple of rooms at first. With Radio RA, I can add switches and dimmers as needed without special wiring. Other major lighting control options require special wiring in advance. My answer to the 2nd question is yes - sort of. The Enerzone panel and Aqulink RS8 are being provided by the HVAC & Pool contractors at my request. I have decided to go with the Apex Destiny security panel through my brother in-law. The Russound panel was choosen because I cannot get pricing on the Crestron multi-room audio equipment.

QQQ - I have seen the retail prices - but who pays MSRP anymore? I don't want to seem arogant on this because beggers can't be choosey, but there has to be someone out there that can work with me at a resonable price on the products.

ItsColdInMn - I am an insurance agent in Florida and do you know what type of accidents happen on motocycles?

tsvisser - Computers don't scare me - but why go through all of that with a product like Crestron's on the market. Wife and kids have to stay, no bike to sell and if wife learns about how much money has already been put into the system, she might sell me!

fbarrett- thanks again for your time on the phone this morning and I will set up a time to come down within the next month.

twix - I agree 100% - X10 is out of the question. I would rather have a Crestron system that didn't work at its full potential than deal with X10 headaches.

I again don't want to seem arrogant or come off as all knowing on this subject, but there has to be some possible solution to this matter. I can't ditch the brother in-law (family counts somewhere), and I really want the Crestron products. Help if you can (PLEASE!)
Post 10 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 14:40
twix
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Doco,

I understand you predicament, but I question the need for so much automation if you indeed have a limited budjet. Ra can automate your lighting "yes". It can provide you with remote close contact solutions "yes". It can be installed before and after the fact,"yes".
BUT.. Homeworks or Vantage can do all that and more. Just home run you loads and invest in acouple of keypads and voila better solution same bread. Put switches in for time being if you have too. Also Vantage q-link eats RA alive!

Sound wise, go with a multi-room system that uses key-pads or whatever and use a pronto for home theatre with a good little system. Bingo your happy and you are not married to anyone including your bro-in-law!

If you want Crestron, make the "dough" and do it later and forget their audio solutions.


Twix
OP | Post 11 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 15:40
Doco
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Twix,

The lighting portion of the automation is not my biggest concern at this point. I don't want to dump $15K into a lighting control system, when I can do the rooms and controls I want for around $6K using Radio RA. The home is 6500 sq ft and I am only planning on starting off in doing the theater room, office, kitchen, and master bedroom. The home sits on 3.5 acres and I will be adding exteroir lighting later on down the road to the system. That again is my primary reason for choosing Radio RA. That and I can get it locally in town without having to go through a dealer.

In my last house, I had the setup that you recommended I go with on this one. Yeah sure it worked fine (I still love my Pronto), but I want to move onto bigger and better things. I have also conteplated going with multi-room audio that works only with lcd keypads and ir, but if I want the Crestron system, why not integrate it into it as well.

I have the "dough" to afford the system I want and feel that it will meet all my needs for now and in the near future. I just can't find a Crestron dealer that will work with me. I still have not made a solid decision on a couple of the integration products I am planning on using, but I have set aside $18 - 20K for just these items. ($6K - Radio RA, $5K - multi-room audio, $1K - alarm $1.5K - Aqualink, $1K - HVAC, $??K - Crestron).

Why forget the Crestron audio solutions? I was thinking of their 8PAK.
Post 12 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 16:07
twix
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There is a new touch panel from Speakercraft coming that uses live streaming data over cat-5. Pricing seems to be fair and it is beliefed to be very easy to program. Check it out! As for Crestron, no dealer will work A) dicounting B) let you drive the sale. It is similar to your business of insurance. It is the complany who says how much they will pay out to the insurer not the insurer dictates what they should get from the complany and when.
You will find it easier to source more competative products from different suppliers. Hence the ease of aquiring RA, every guy and his cousin can buy it and install it. I think you are making a very serious mistake not looking at you lighting control right away but that is your choice. Don't automate everything just the outdoor and main living areas and master suite/ensuite. At 6500 sqf how manny loads can you have? That means you need a maximum of a couple of pannels in the Mech room. Vantage is also customer freindly if you want to tweak yourself. Radio-link will enable to go fully automated after the fact too and hook up retro-fit without sacificing your future.

We all like to save $$$$ but your job site will suffer,I promise.

Twix
Post 13 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 16:24
Tony Golden
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On 08/26/02 14:40.29, twix said...
If you want Crestron, make the "dough" and do
it later and forget their audio solutions.

Although Crestron's multi-zone amps are over-priced (IMO), their audio pre-amp is one of the most versatile on the market. Because it's operation is controlled by the main processor's logic, you can program features that are very difficult, or even impossible, with other brands.

For example, you can have four satellite receivers, selectable from a single "Sat" button. The keypad can be configured so that the first available (not currently in use) receiver is automatically selected, or one press selects the first unit, two presses select the second, press and hold does something else, and so on.

That is only one of MANY possibilities. You can do all kinds of things, like "Party Mode", scheduled maximum volume levels (after 10pm, selected rooms can't exceed X percent), automatic shut-off, etc.

As for the RadioRa, I would definitely not recommend it for a new construction. While it's a nice solution for retrofit, the protocol is too limiting, and you're paying for technology (RF) that you really don't need (because you can run wires). As someone else suggested, it's possible to install a "limited" centralized system with only a few zones initially, and add more later -- just make sure the wiring is run appropriately.

If you still don't want to go that route, I'd choose HAI/OnQ's ALC system over the RA (for new construction). It can work with "normal" electrical wiring, and only needs an additional Cat-5 to each switch location. You can install regular switches now, then go back and replace them later with ALC switches.

Finally, it *is* possible to buy Crestron equipment without installation or programming (or maybe with minimal programming). I agree with Crestron's reasons for not wanting it sold that way -- which is so that an improperly designed/installed/programmed system doesn't have a negative effect on their image. However, there are many dealer-installed systems that are also not great for their image :-)

Start with the Crestron Programmer's group on YahooGroups -- [Link: groups.yahoo.com]. In the Database area, there's a contact list of dealers and programmers. You can also post a request to the board, if you want...
OP | Post 14 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 17:00
Doco
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Twix,

Again thanks for your help on this subject. I will look in the the Vantage system. I am not married to the Radio RA, but again the ease of purchasing the product is one driving point. As you can see from most the threads, no one agrees with this route.

On the dealer problem, I understand the commitment that they have to uphold the Crestron name and product line. To relate this to an insurance related matter - You can go to an agent's office and he can tailor an insurance program specific to your needs (Dealer, who has to stand behind their product and company). You also can go to a 1-800 company and pay less of a premium for coverages that may or may not meet your needs. (Wholesaler - still has to contend with company at lower commision due to volume).

Both have the same commitment to the product they sell, one just makes more money off the sale. I know of many people that buy from 1-800 numbers and are happy with what they have. I am just trying to get reasonable prices on the products to find out if they meet the budget that I have set aside for this project. If I told somebody that I would not give them a price on insurance coverage unless they commited to buy it from me - I would have to find someplace else to get the "dough".

Thanks again for all your input on this subject - Based on popular demand, I will probably have to re-think the lighting. I will also check the yahoo/programmers group to find out if someone else there can help.
Post 15 made on Monday August 26, 2002 at 17:11
twix
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Tony had good advise and I am glad to see you are re-thinking. You are right about the insurance and FYI i buy insurrance from a broker. I know for a fact that I am paying a premium than going with a 1-800 but at least I can ruin his day at a party if he "jerks" me around!

Have fun!

Twix
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