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Topic: | 3xQuadshield RG-6 to work as Component Feed? This thread has 42 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 43. |
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Post 31 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 01:54 |
simoneales Select Member |
Joined: Posts: | May 2005 1,782 |
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On 05/25/05 17:38 ET, bcf1963 said...
Simon,
I think you have a basic misunderstanding of skin effect. You comment that "Video signal however travels through the center of the wire". Here you imply that the impedance will be greater because it's not traveling through the copper plated to the steel.
The truth is that at DC, that current will flow through the entire cross section of the wire, in inverse proportion to the impedance of the material. You will find that for any center conductor, that loss increases with increasing frequency. This is always true, because even if the center of the conductor had an impedance 100 times that of the outer layer, at DC and lower frequencies, the center material still lowers the impedance of the conductor, because the two conductors are in parallel.
Think of it this way... if you have a 1000 ohm resistor, what resistance do you need to put in parallel with it to increase the resistance to greater than 1000 ohms? Answer: You can't. If you use an infinite resistance, you still have an impedance of 1000 ohms. Even if the resistor you add in parallel is 1000000 ohms, the total impedance of the system is 999 ohms, less than the 1000 ohms of the original resistance.
So... if the 1000 ohm resistor in the example above is the outer skin effect, and the inner conductor is the resistance we are adding, you'll note that the energy loss can only increase with frequency. Or, the lower in frequency, the better a cable of a given center conductor type will perform. I think there is way too much of, my brain is bigger than yours going on here, however allow me to correct myself. i should have said that video signals travel through the entire thickness of of the center conductor as opposed to just the copper clad skin, therefore the frequencies not travelling on the surface (most of the signal) will suffer as a result of the steel not being nearly as conductive as a solid copper core. I hope this satisfies your need to make assumptions about and correct what i believed to be an accurate and helpfull explanation without all the unrequired technical BS that i see so much of here. I'm a practical guy and try to give practical help. Simon. This message was edited by simoneales on 05/28/05 02:29 ET.
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I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear. |
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Post 32 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 02:18 |
simoneales Select Member |
Joined: Posts: | May 2005 1,782 |
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I think there is way too much of, my brain is bigger than yours going on here, however allow me to correct myself. i should have said that video signals travel through the entire thickness of of the center conductor as opposed to just the copper clad skin, therefore the frequencies not travelling on the surface (most of the signal) will suffer as a result of the steel not being nearly as conductive as a solid copper core. I hope this satisfies your need to make assumptions about and correct what i believed to be an accurate and helpfull explanation without all the unrequired technical BS that i see so much of here. I'm a practical guy and try to give practical help.
Simon.
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I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear. |
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OP | Post 33 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 03:14 |
Steve Garn Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2003 1,319 |
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My point is that for a 40' long component video cable, that you can choose RG59 or RG6. The specs of the cable itself are almost a non issue. I think someone would have difficulty buying something that wouldn't work well. The biggest issue is terminating the cable well (With CCS or aluminum braid, you better be using crimp, snap/seal, or compression connectors, as you can't solder them well.) and making sure the cable is not damaged during install or construction. Thanks bcf. An opinion that appears relevant to the original question. Have you or anyone else used both and been satisfied with the results? One would like to know. My concern is that we really don't want to chunk out drywall unless caca will ooze from the bright shiney end of the projector. Sorry guys but swept at 3 jigawatts or 1 faldercarb (bla bla bla). Reminds me of this guy named Higgins on a Hawaiian show years back. I never really figured out if he was Robin Masters or just some English butler dude. re-quoting a hole page....zzzzzz
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Manuals?! We don't need no stinking manuals! a.. er.. |
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Post 34 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 13:21 |
Caffeinated Long Time Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2003 361 |
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We have been using MIT's "one wire" with their 75 ohm ends ( simple screw on type ) for our projector runs / custom component video runs for many years now.
(silver-clad Rg59 / 6)
I'm yet to see a bad picture from it.
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Post 35 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 21:24 |
bcf1963 Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | September 2004 2,767 |
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On 05/28/05 01:54 ET, simoneales said...
I think there is way too much of, my brain is bigger than yours going on here, Let's see, I tried to correct and explain a misstatement, so you give the jab above... however allow me to correct myself. i should have said that video signals travel through the entire thickness of of the center conductor as opposed to just the copper clad skin, therefore the frequencies not travelling on the surface (most of the signal) will suffer as a result of the steel not being nearly as conductive as a solid copper core. I hope this satisfies your need to make assumptions about and correct what i believed to be an accurate and helpfull explanation without all the unrequired technical BS that i see so much of here. I'm a practical guy and try to give practical help.
Simon. Speaking from a purely practical standpoint, your statement is misleading at best. What you have been implying is that a solid copper center conductor RG/59 will outperform RG6 with copper plated steel in the application in question. The question was about a 40' run of RG6. I challenge you to tell the difference between the two in a 40' run. (Is that practical enough!) Just to be clear, the technical information I gave was not BS. I actually understand transmission lines, and the theory and its practical application. The problem is that too many on this forum like to throw the concepts around and misapply them.
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Post 36 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 21:44 |
bcf1963 Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | September 2004 2,767 |
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On 05/28/05 03:14 ET, Steve Garn said...
Thanks bcf. An opinion that appears relevant to the original question. Have you or anyone else used both and been satisfied with the results? I have not used RG59 for this myself, although plenty of others in this forum have posted the "merits" that only RG59 will work, and that RG6 will not. As far as the RG6, here's a post I did quite a while ago that compares a 45' RG6 component cable to a 6' HDMI. [Link: remotecentral.com]
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Post 37 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 23:58 |
simoneales Select Member |
Joined: Posts: | May 2005 1,782 |
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On 05/28/05 21:24 ET, bcf1963 said...
Let's see, I tried to correct and explain a misstatement, so you give the jab above...
Speaking from a purely practical standpoint, your statement is misleading at best. What you have been implying is that a solid copper center conductor RG/59 will outperform RG6 with copper plated steel in the application in question. The question was about a 40' run of RG6. I challenge you to tell the difference between the two in a 40' run. (Is that practical enough!)
Just to be clear, the technical information I gave was not BS. I actually understand transmission lines, and the theory and its practical application. The problem is that too many on this forum like to throw the concepts around and misapply them. i think we have a problem with the difference in the way we express ourselves. I'm Australian and i'm assuming your US based. My original explanation would have been plenty sufficient for my peers over here. I'm aware that the technical information you gave was correct and that over 40ft of of RG6 quadshield it would probably look ok. My original explanation that you had a jab at me about, was in reference to the concerns the original question poster had about RG6 quadshield in general, in respect to not remembering why it might be a problem. How about we shake hands and leave this alone now. Simon.
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I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear. |
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OP | Post 38 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 01:43 |
Steve Garn Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2003 1,319 |
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I guess one or the other of us are just looking at everything upside down (or under). Thanks for the info, guys. My conclusion is that I'll throw some compression fittings on the RG-6 and swing away. All the banter has put my mind to rest.
G'day Simon and have a nice day bcf. I do appreciate it.
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Manuals?! We don't need no stinking manuals! a.. er.. |
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Post 39 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 02:31 |
Larry Fine Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2001 5,002 |
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On 05/28/05 21:44 ET, bcf1963 said...
. . . plenty of others in this forum have posted the "merits" that only RG59 will work, and that RG6 will not. I never said that RG-6 won't work (I know you weren't addressing me), only that it has no advantage over RG-59 for other than RF use, and several disadvantages, mostly physical.
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OP | Post 40 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 11:43 |
Steve Garn Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2003 1,319 |
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Thanks, Larry. I'll probably still use the thin stuff for our prewires because it so much easier to work with. It's nice to know though, that just about anything works in a pinch if you attach the correct connectors.
When I watch the fur flying in one of these redneck Ford vs. Chevy wars just after the demolition derby I conclude it comes down to what type of beer one drinks. That's all I'm saying.
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Manuals?! We don't need no stinking manuals! a.. er.. |
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Post 41 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 11:47 |
Ernie Bornn-Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
Joined: Posts: | December 2001 30,104 |
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On 05/27/05 14:59 ET, Larry Fine said...
I believe he meant "you don't want to use CCS unless you are keeping well above about 50 mHz." Right.
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything. "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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Post 42 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 21:27 |
Larry Fine Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2001 5,002 |
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On 05/29/05 11:47 ET, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
You think a typo is embarrassing in a post? How about the one I just found in this section, that has been showing up on EVERY post for three weeks? I won't tell anyone.
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Post 43 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 22:31 |
oex Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | April 2004 4,177 |
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On 05/28/05 13:21 ET, Caffeinated said...
We have been using MIT's "one wire" with their 75 ohm ends ( simple screw on type ) for our Great stuff but stiffer than a honeymoon peter
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Diplomacy is the art of saying hire a pro without actually saying hire a pro |
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