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Topic:
3xQuadshield RG-6 to work as Component Feed?
This thread has 42 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 43.
Post 31 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 01:54
simoneales
Select Member
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May 2005
1,782
On 05/25/05 17:38 ET, bcf1963 said...
Simon,

I think you have a basic misunderstanding of skin
effect. You comment that "Video signal however
travels
through the center of the wire". Here you imply
that the impedance will be greater because it's
not traveling through the copper plated to the
steel.

The truth is that at DC, that current will flow
through the entire cross section of the wire,
in inverse proportion to the impedance of the
material. You will find that for any center conductor,
that loss increases with increasing frequency.
This is always true, because even if the center
of the conductor had an impedance 100 times that
of the outer layer, at DC and lower frequencies,
the center material still lowers the impedance
of the conductor, because the two conductors are
in parallel.

Think of it this way... if you have a 1000 ohm
resistor, what resistance do you need to put in
parallel with it to increase the resistance to
greater than 1000 ohms?
Answer: You can't. If you use an infinite resistance,
you still have an impedance of 1000 ohms. Even
if the resistor you add in parallel is 1000000
ohms, the total impedance of the system is 999
ohms, less than the 1000 ohms of the original
resistance.

So... if the 1000 ohm resistor in the example
above is the outer skin effect, and the inner
conductor is the resistance we are adding, you'll
note that the energy loss can only increase with
frequency. Or, the lower in frequency, the better
a cable of a given center conductor type will
perform.

I think there is way too much of, my brain is bigger than yours going on here, however allow me to correct myself. i should have said that video signals travel through the entire thickness of of the center conductor as opposed to just the copper clad skin, therefore the frequencies not travelling on the surface (most of the signal) will suffer as a result of the steel not being nearly as conductive as a solid copper core.
I hope this satisfies your need to make assumptions about and correct what i believed to be an accurate and helpfull explanation without all the unrequired technical BS that i see so much of here. I'm a practical guy and try to give practical help.

Simon.

This message was edited by simoneales on 05/28/05 02:29 ET.
I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear.
Post 32 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 02:18
simoneales
Select Member
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May 2005
1,782
I think there is way too much of, my brain is bigger than yours going on here, however allow me to correct myself. i should have said that video signals travel through the entire thickness of of the center conductor as opposed to just the copper clad skin, therefore the frequencies not travelling on the surface (most of the signal) will suffer as a result of the steel not being nearly as conductive as a solid copper core.
I hope this satisfies your need to make assumptions about and correct what i believed to be an accurate and helpfull explanation without all the unrequired technical BS that i see so much of here. I'm a practical guy and try to give practical help.

Simon.
I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear.
OP | Post 33 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 03:14
Steve Garn
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2003
1,319
My point is that for a 40' long component video
cable, that you can choose RG59 or RG6. The specs
of the cable itself are almost a non issue. I
think someone would have difficulty buying something
that wouldn't work well. The biggest issue is
terminating the cable well (With CCS or aluminum
braid, you better be using crimp, snap/seal, or
compression connectors, as you can't solder them
well.) and making sure the cable is not damaged
during install or construction.

Thanks bcf. An opinion that appears relevant to the original question. Have you or anyone else used both and been satisfied with the results? One would like to know. My concern is that we really don't want to chunk out drywall unless caca will ooze from the bright shiney end of the projector.

Sorry guys but swept at 3 jigawatts or 1 faldercarb (bla bla bla). Reminds me of this guy named Higgins on a Hawaiian show years back. I never really figured out if he was Robin Masters or just some English butler dude.

re-quoting a hole page....zzzzzz
Manuals?! We don't need no stinking manuals! a.. er..
Post 34 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 13:21
Caffeinated
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2003
361
We have been using MIT's "one wire" with their 75 ohm ends ( simple screw on type ) for our projector runs / custom component video runs for many years now.

(silver-clad Rg59 / 6)

I'm yet to see a bad picture from it.
Post 35 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 21:24
bcf1963
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
2,767
On 05/28/05 01:54 ET, simoneales said...
I think there is way too much of, my brain is
bigger than yours going on here,

Let's see, I tried to correct and explain a misstatement, so you give the jab above...

however allow
me to correct myself. i should have said that
video signals travel through the entire thickness
of of the center conductor as opposed to just
the copper clad skin, therefore the frequencies
not travelling on the surface (most of the signal)
will suffer as a result of the steel not being
nearly as conductive as a solid copper core.
I hope this satisfies your need to make assumptions
about and correct what i believed to be an accurate
and helpfull explanation without all the unrequired
technical BS that i see so much of here. I'm a
practical guy and try to give practical help.

Simon.

Speaking from a purely practical standpoint, your statement is misleading at best. What you have been implying is that a solid copper center conductor RG/59 will outperform RG6 with copper plated steel in the application in question. The question was about a 40' run of RG6. I challenge you to tell the difference between the two in a 40' run. (Is that practical enough!)

Just to be clear, the technical information I gave was not BS. I actually understand transmission lines, and the theory and its practical application. The problem is that too many on this forum like to throw the concepts around and misapply them.
Post 36 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 21:44
bcf1963
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
2,767
On 05/28/05 03:14 ET, Steve Garn said...
Thanks bcf. An opinion that appears relevant
to the original question. Have you or anyone
else used both and been satisfied with the results?

I have not used RG59 for this myself, although plenty of others in this forum have posted the "merits" that only RG59 will work, and that RG6 will not.

As far as the RG6, here's a post I did quite a while ago that compares a 45' RG6 component cable to a 6' HDMI.

[Link: remotecentral.com]
Post 37 made on Saturday May 28, 2005 at 23:58
simoneales
Select Member
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Posts:
May 2005
1,782
On 05/28/05 21:24 ET, bcf1963 said...
Let's see, I tried to correct and explain a misstatement,
so you give the jab above...

Speaking from a purely practical standpoint, your
statement is misleading at best. What you have
been implying is that a solid copper center conductor
RG/59 will outperform RG6 with copper plated steel
in the application in question. The question
was about a 40' run of RG6. I challenge you to
tell the difference between the two in a 40' run.
(Is that practical enough!)

Just to be clear, the technical information I
gave was not BS. I actually understand transmission
lines, and the theory and its practical application.
The problem is that too many on this forum like
to throw the concepts around and misapply them.

i think we have a problem with the difference in the way we express ourselves. I'm Australian and i'm assuming your US based. My original explanation would have been plenty sufficient for my peers over here. I'm aware that the technical information you gave was correct and that over 40ft of of RG6 quadshield it would probably look ok. My original explanation that you had a jab at me about, was in reference to the concerns the original question poster had about RG6 quadshield in general, in respect to not remembering why it might be a problem.

How about we shake hands and leave this alone now.

Simon.
I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear.
OP | Post 38 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 01:43
Steve Garn
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2003
1,319
I guess one or the other of us are just looking at everything upside down (or under). Thanks for the info, guys. My conclusion is that I'll throw some compression fittings on the RG-6 and swing away. All the banter has put my mind to rest.

G'day Simon and have a nice day bcf. I do appreciate it.
Manuals?! We don't need no stinking manuals! a.. er..
Post 39 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 02:31
Larry Fine
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
5,002
On 05/28/05 21:44 ET, bcf1963 said...
. . . plenty of others in this forum have posted the
"merits" that only RG59 will work, and that RG6
will not.

I never said that RG-6 won't work (I know you weren't addressing me), only that it has no advantage over RG-59 for other than RF use, and several disadvantages, mostly physical.
OP | Post 40 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 11:43
Steve Garn
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2003
1,319
Thanks, Larry. I'll probably still use the thin stuff for our prewires because it so much easier to work with. It's nice to know though, that just about anything works in a pinch if you attach the correct connectors.

When I watch the fur flying in one of these redneck Ford vs. Chevy wars just after the demolition derby I conclude it comes down to what type of beer one drinks. That's all I'm saying.
Manuals?! We don't need no stinking manuals! a.. er..
Post 41 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 11:47
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
30,104
On 05/27/05 14:59 ET, Larry Fine said...
I believe he meant "you don't want to use CCS
unless you are keeping well above about
50 mHz."

Right.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 42 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 21:27
Larry Fine
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
5,002
On 05/29/05 11:47 ET, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
You think a typo is embarrassing in a post? How about the one I just found in this section, that has been showing up on EVERY post for three weeks?

I won't tell anyone.
Post 43 made on Sunday May 29, 2005 at 22:31
oex
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2004
4,177
On 05/28/05 13:21 ET, Caffeinated said...
We have been using MIT's "one wire" with their
75 ohm ends ( simple screw on type ) for our

Great stuff but stiffer than a honeymoon peter
Diplomacy is the art of saying hire a pro without actually saying hire a pro
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