Hi everyone I'm a A/V installer in california who has been learning to program Pronto,Marantz,and RTI remotes for the past 6 months and I have gotten pretty good at it to the point that I can get the remotes flawless however my boss wants to pay me $20.00 an hour for 2 hours maximum on remote programming wich is basically $40.00 per remote even if its a pronto.So I figure something must be up how much should I be making? The 20.00 an hour was what I was being paid in the begining while I was learning but now I have past that phase and my boss doesnt want to pay me more because supposedly I dont have enough "experience" although I can do the remotes perfectly. Am I gettin ripped off? I'm under the suspicion that he is charging $200.00 for programming to the customers.He also says I take long wich i dont considering what I have to work with some POS laptop with a slow processor and bad connections to the remote and the constant crashing of the software during programming yet I'am supposed to make "bulletproof" remotes and be quick about it.Lets not forget he wants discretes on stuff you cant get discretes on yet and because I tell him that he says I dont know what Im doing.Im real young but I fell Im being taken advantage of :( and I dont complain that Im making $9.00 an hour to baiscally be a helper for the other guys and I call it "on the job training" since I have no vehicle or tools ,so that I am greatfull for but on the remote aspect I fell im being shafted.

One way to find out Twiggy. Test the free market. Put out some resumes and see what others are willing to pay. BTW it would help to know exactly what you think the job is worth. Perhaps it you make a case and propose a salary your boss will agree with you. I hate employees that gripe that they don't make enough, but can't tell you what they think they should make are why. Take a stand.

Twiggy, I started off just like you with no tools or experience and worked my way up. You are lucky that your boss pays you a different rate for doing the Remotes. You should be very happy, because not too many bosses do things like that. Thats great that you know remotes so well and being on this site shows your interest in learning so that is a good thing. Keep working hard and dont ever whine, like Thon said if you think you deserve more, tell them why. If feels much better just getting a raise than getting one because you asked for it. If you do think your boss treats you unfairly which it really sounds like he doesn't, find a different job. In you area it is not a hard thing to do. Go to www.cedia.net and post your resume.Good Luck.

Most installers (techs) get paid to do whatever is called for. trying to be paid separately for different jobs is a sure way to be "let go" pre maturely. Create your importance and you should be rewarded, any owner/ manager will want to keep good people but they do not like to be challenged regularly.

I agree with the others about being happy for the pay differential. As far as the difference for what the bossman pays you and then charges the customer? He's got the trucks, tools, business cards, insurance liabilities, Board of Equalization, business licenses, city permits ~ just the ongoing overhead of running a business. Programming is just "gravy" that he uses to sell the biscuits. Put it this way: Do you think he could sell a complete job without having the remote programmed to the customer's spec's before he leaves the jobsite with a paycheck ?? No, not when the closest competitor is offering programming. You notice there are not two separately defined markets for installation of equipment and programming - even if someone bids a job with devices they don't know how to program they have to pre-arrange to have someone with Crestron et al expertise to come in and make it all work.

In other words I don't think there's a place for you to hang out your shingle based on: "Let the installers put in the equipment and leave, then Twiggy will come in and wake it all up for a separate fee." It's rarely going to happen.


There's a legitimate beef, but you can also turn it into a plus- Why don't you have the boss subsidize YOU for a new laptop, or if you think that's not going to happen, buy your own. Go to Dell and get on the payment plan. The software crashing is probably due to the laptop's POS status. (Why Dell? SUPPORT! ~ "Emilio's Silicon Chip Boutique" is going to leave you in the dust when your "bargain" laptop also becomes POS.) Why should the laptop be YOURS? So you can take everything you are as a programmer with you when you leave at night. This makes you somewhat invaluable to your boss and gives you the scare factor of being able to take your skills elsewhere after you become the king of the unknown discretes.


You might be able to negotiate that up later. You could be silently working on a "difficulty per level of programming" job scale that you think could be recognized as legitimate. You may have it thrown back in your face, but your time is your money. Right now you're on learner's permit, but when you graduate any failure to pay you what you are worth is a mistake that EX-employers can regret in hindsight.

If you want ALL the ducats for programming the remotes, then open your own business. (Be careful what you wish for!) Chances are you'll be so busy you'll end up hiring someone to program them for "$20.00 an hour for 2 hours maximum" !!

BTW~ How are you so certain your boss isn't tuning in to your communiques here? Is he that digitally challenged?

Thanks for your comments everyone I guess i should just hold on longer.And Sheik_Yerbouhti I am not afraid of my boss seeing my post in fact hopefully he does. But chances are he won't as he doesnt sit well with computers apparently.

Sorry Twig', I was shootin' from the hip there; What I took from your post was that you thought your boss was a jerk who was ripping you off.

I think almost everyone's worked for someone they thought was a jerk for one reason or another. It's just that usually when that becomes mutual knowledge relations begin to deteriorate rapidly.

I didn't really mean to imply you were afraid. I suppose I should have said: "Stay on this raft until a better one floats by, rather than jumping into the ocean."


You're probably right ~ if he's got no computer skills then he needs you, or some rendition of you. (What a maroon to tell you that YOU don't know what you're doing ~ he should look in the mirror when he says it.) It sounds like the guy uses brainwash tactics on you. Make yourself invaluable and maybe he'll pay you not to leave. (And cry tears when you do.)

All I can say to this is that you are a manic genius if you can program a Pronto in two hours! All I could do in that time is -- probably -- teach all the raw codes needed.

I have programmed Lexicons, Crestron, and Prontos (and one $200 Sony, it was pretty good!)
It usually takes me about six hours...
but the factory graphics do not have the right buttons arranged properly, pagewise, for real use;
but I hate the appearance of the factory graphics so I rip off graphics from this site, and thank you, Daniel;
I usually give the clients direct access to DSS channels;
I make the most complete power and source selection macros I can come up with;
I find I have to do it on site to be sure all commands and macros work properly.

If you do all this, and can do it in FOUR hours, then you, sir, are a genius and you SHOULD show this to your boss!!!

I suggest you prepare a comparison set of ccfs, one a two-hour job, one a complete job, for a system at your boss's location, to show him how much more the customer will like the more complete but, alas, more time-consuming programming.

And be sure to tell him that the components that HE chooses, with or without discrete codes, will completely affect how much time it takes to program, and how satisfactorily the Pronto can automate the client's system. You could demonstrate this with a ccf using discretes, and another ccf for the same components not using discretes.

Good luck!

Having a strong back ground in programming is a large plus. Having experience in the business is a well needed match. Shop your skills around. A well rounded person is worth more. Pronto programming is easy. Making the remote easy for the client takes careful review and planning. That shows. Many of us can copy annother project, make a few changes and tweak the power sequences in a very short time, so having a completed remote in one to two hours is not uncommom. Find a nitch. That's key. Make yourself valauable.

Dave


This message was edited by DavidatAVX on 08/20/02 22:53.46.

Even six hours is good....if the customer wants very specific programming expect more.

I e-mailed you Twiggy and you didn't call or e back ?

6 hours????!!!???? are you kidding me. I program 3-4 a week and if it takes me 2 hours then I am taking too long. My usual time is an hour to an hour and a half, I get paid my normal time plus a % of programing for every remote that I do. I agree with Sheik_Yerbouhti, and I do take my work and my computer home with me every night and my knowledge was self taught so I am the only one with it. I am not greedy and am being paid 1/2 as much or less as I should be but I to am learning every day. Be patient Twiggy, you are being paid more than I and taking longer to program that I am. More money will follow if you play your cards right.