Most of what we do is low voltage wiring. A/V distribution, satellite installs, networking, etc. We are going to be getting into lighting control soon.

How do those who do lighting handle the high voltage part of the job? While I know HOW to wire the system, Im not a certified electrician. Do most of you sub out the 110v part, or instead do the necessary steps to obtain the elecrticians certification?

If there are those who DO the certification route, where might I go and what kind of schooling/time frame might I expect to get certified? I ceretainly dont want to go to a few years of vocational school just to do lighting control.

Any thoughts?

Well you don't "sub" anything.. the GC hires the electrician with the feedback from the homeowner and architect, and you are a part of the team that designs what goes in along with the homeowners and usually the architect. Sometimes, you will actually see a dedicated lighting designer to specify fixtures and circuits.

You will have to spec the dimmer panel, local dimmer and control locations as well as the specific electrical requirements for tha panels and each circuit ahead of time.
Then you need to relay all this info to the GC, architect, and electricians far enough ahead of time that they can have the materials and manpower on hand to get it done on the schedules that they had in mind when they took on the job.

In a perfect scenario, you are just designing the control and specifying the circuit layout, and the lighting plan is set in stone before you start with the control plan.

More likely is that the lighting designer or interior designers will convince the homeowner to change half of the fixtures, add a dozen more circuits, and reconfigure which fixtures are tied together.
Of course this will happen the day AFTER you submit the plans to the other parties and wrote your P.O. for the lighting control products.

You now need 4 dimmer panels instead of 3, the electrician will have to put in a larger sub panel than was spec'd, and run another two miles of conduit that weren't planned just to facilitate the extra circuits, and you need to reconsider using two gang KPs so you can give access to more scenes and get status of all of the circuits you want to see.

You have enough to worry about without getting involved in doing the electrical work too.

Rick2 is giving you excellent advice. We do electric -- and many other types of tradework -- as well and doing so requires a lot of man hours. But we are equipped, trained and insured for such work. Unless you are prepared to take on an entirely new trade and ramp up to it, I second his advice.

Especially this part:


Are you kidding? Your designers only change their minds *once*?

they must be on a tract project

This message was edited by oex on 04/11/05 18:50 ET.

It's kind of like a running change order from 5 minutes after the first revision to 6 months after occupancy...

I think the term "double edged sword" was actually coined in regard to designers and decorators. In the end it sure looks nice, but man is it a pita getting there.

Ok, looks like I wont be soending the time to get certified.

If I WERE to get it in the future, just to have it, does it require official schooling, or where would one go to get training/certification?

Similar note: Lets say I just want to do a retrofit for a customer. They already have the house built. We go in for a Home Theatre install/upgrade. They want lighting control, but not whole house lighting. So I use a Lutron Spacer system in the HT room. Theres not a whole lot to the install, yet I cant technically touch it, as there is 110 involved. What would you guys do in this situation?

Thanks again

I would stay within the law of my state, in order to not be sue-able by anyone that has a problem with the work after the fact. What's the law in Indiana?

In fact there may be a bit more than initially meets the eye on a Spacer install, depending on how the room was wired. Many switch locations don't have a neutral in them; not needed for a stardard switch. The Spacers do, I believe. And if the Spacer is part of a three or four way circuit, more rewiring may be needed.

Ask yourself, is there that much revenue at play here to make it worthwhile for you?

please, everybody, that is

tract

I have local electricians I use in situations like this. Find a one man w/ a helper EC. I know how hard it is for a small EC shop to drop everything for a little 'service call' type as they would call this one room install. BTDT. So I have three on file. BTW in using a small EC, most of them don't want anything to do w/ the LV side, so you are covered there, although I have heard horror stories.

I actually use a Residential EC I used be a helper for 15+ years ago. Most of the time he has me to do the small stuff I personally work on, as he taught me my 110-12 'neat & workman like manner'. His refferals are usally pretty good also.

One of the best ways to find a small guy is to go to the orange store & find the actual electrician who is in the elec dept, most of them have one, & ask them who their 'go to' EC is they recomend to customers. I lucked out, the guy I asked is a retired Licensed EC, who does the HD job PT. He is now my fall-back guy.

TWIL@I, we only dabble in all of the other trade specialties. It is hard enough to keep up w/ the changes in the LV arena, let alone the _______ (Insert Trade) industry.
EXAMPLE: We install controls for HVAC, but I am not going to go out and get certified/licensed to be an HVAC contractor, along w/ all of CEUs, insurance, etc. to deal w/ to retain it.

That is where partnerships w/ other Contractors come into play.

That damn k key is to darn close to the t. my bad.

You'd call someone like me, who does small jobs as well as large, and also does and understands LV wiring, too.

Whoever you hire or wind up working with, YOU need to go back and do your own inspection of the work with the lead guy of the crew you are working with to make sure that it was done the way your system requires.
You will need to be up on how to effectively create and communicate the wiring plan, and how to identify issues with the implementation of your plan.

BTW, you ever mentioned what system(s) you were considering...
Lutron Home Works?? Vantage?? Lite Touch?? Crestron??
or are you just getting your feet wet with a dimmer/switch replacement style system like RadioRa, Leviton, HAI or something like that??

If it's a dedicated system like Lutron HWI, Vantage, or Lite Touch, the inspector will most likely NOT catch any issues related to whether or not it will work correctly. They rarely see these types of systems and are usually just looking for hazardous situations and obvious code issues.

BTW, we have been known to wire up a Grafik Eye and a few circuits (zones) of can lights, sconces, foot lights, etc. in a single room HT remodel. This is pretty rare, but we say we can if we're asked to, but we don't actively go after that portion of the job because the few dollars aren't worth the bad blood with the local sparkys. Contractors always seem to think that everyone is conspiring to take food off their plate...
Usually we just lay it out for the guys that they have already chosen, or throw in our .02 regarding who they should choose that plays fair with us.

For now the Lutron Spacer system seems to fit the bill. Im still getting my feet wet. I'm not so concerned about whole house solutions yet, just dediucated thratre rooms. Maybe in the future, but for now Im just looking for a i-red controllable light switch, to combine with the a macro remote. Spacer seemed the way to go.

Well, for now you can forget about the advice regarding laying out panels, consulting lighting designers and architects, ad re-drawing plans...

If you're just looking to turn down the lights with your remote, introduce yourself to the electricians you see all the time in the field and see if they would be willing to swap out dimmers for you.

[Link: lutron.com]

Download the specification sheets and give them to the EC.
Request that he use deep boxes, it's for his own sake.

Still great advice, as we will eventually be going that route. It probably just wont be right away. Still getting feet wet.