I have a big Ford van for installs. Been looking at a Ford Explorer. Can picture the seats all laid flat for 98% of my jobs and it will lock up pretty well. It's an SUV type, so I'm wondering if you have preferences toward vans or pickups.
I like the suv style because it can still be a decent ride (more like a car than a truck), doesn't buck on the bumps like my big van, and don't have to worry about shells as in a pickup, etc.
Just wondering what you guys like/don't like.
=Tom

I think that a van w/ cage would be mandatory for anyone that is going to be hauling around expensive tools and AV equipment. SUV vehicles are just asking for someone to break in and gank all yo' stuff.

-Tom

It doesn't sound like what you're looking for but the answer to your thread title is a stepvan. It provides plenty of room for tool and parts storage and there is nothing quite like being able to stand up in a vehicle. I think it is the most efficient and easy to use vehicle but they are very expensive new. But companies often sell them used and sometimes you can find tremendous deals on them and if they have a diesel engine they last forever.

I personally like Chrysler mini-vans.

Check out: http://www.americanvan.com/

For full-size vans, look at: [Link: americanvan.com]

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

Stay away from Chrysler, crappiest powertrain in the industry. Cheap, but doesn't perform or last. Wait for them to revamp the powertrains and then re-evaluate them. Ford got their act together, so they're worth a look at. I think an SUV is wrong for the line of work, but I do know a lot of people who use SUV's like Tahoes and Suburbans for their work trucks. I tend to disagree about the theft issue though, the thief looking to steal tools or supplies is probably going to go for the van because they're most common, and he probably thinks it'll contain the most tools. The thief looking to take the whole thing on the other hand, might want the SUV. Although the van probably has fewer theft deterrent measures. The GM Astro or Safari vans are great if you want something that handles and rides better than a cargo van, but has more room and can be better utilized than an SUV. Plus you can get them as a cargo vehicle, pretty much anyway you want them, including 4 wheel drive, straight from the factory. A lot more accessories like cages and tool boxes built for the Astro type van than the garden variety soccer mom's minivan. TWC MN switched it's entire fleet from Dodge to GM because the dodge's were nothing but problems, even the diesel's. Ford definitely did get their problems worked out, explorers are expensive and got smaller, but they do look nice, I just personally think it'd be a compromise that you shouldn't have to make. I'm guessing you have a Ford pref. and want your next vehicle to be a Ford. I'm a strict GMC man, but I'd consider just about any good idea put on the table. I still think a Safari cargo van would fit all your criteria. Or just go all out and get the GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax. Nothing can touch it. =)

I picked up an adt chevy full size van that was sold after the lease , full cage, racks, pick bins , conduit tube with 100,000 mile warranty .
I thought of a box van and it would be far better suited but some of the roads in L.A. suck bad enough for a regular van and some of the streets here believe it of not are only 1 car wide at times and a box van would be an accident waiting to happen .
Anything is better than having to crawl over everything to get to it in the old 91 ford ranger long bed with a shell .

SWAT TEAM !!
Stepvans rock, repeat after me: "Grumman Kurbmaster". The Grumman's are all aluminum and weigh 1000lbs. less than a Chevy all-steel stepvan. Bigger payload, better center of gravity, and less "sail effect" in the wind. Diesel IS nice, but if you can find a Grumman with a Chevrolet 292 inline six you're going to love it. It pulls like a sled-dog when fully loaded. You know that familiar sound when the older (gas) UPS vans pulled up to your house? That's the 292. After I put a 3" exhaust on mine I couldn't hear it in the front, but my friend spotted me on the freeway and said it sounded like a radial-engined helicopter was about to strafe him.

A six foot person can WALK UPRIGHT the FULL LENGTH OF THE VAN, with inches to spare. You could easily store fishin' poles and stuff like that in an overhead rack with full pull-out access when the back doors were opened up. A conduit rack on the roof would be sweet too. They are the absolute easiest fully enclosed vehicle to equip with shelving, cabinets, and bins because it's all 90 degree angles inside.

Stay away from roll up doors if possible = too noisy and too many service problems. A single wheel rear axle will probably serve you better as it has more room between the wheelwells inside and still carries a mammoth cargo on D-rated tires.

They're built on a HD Chevy van chassis, will make a full (no backup) U-turn on most streets, and park in a normal parking spot. They handle like a normal van in traffic and tight parking situations.

I recently sold my '78 Kurbmaster and weekly I pine for it. Since mine had been used as a pickup and delivery vehicle by a guy who did nothing but clean expensive fur coats it had a "5-alarm-fire" alarm system in it. When that thing went off the thieves themselves would call the police just to make the banshee-like noises stop.

An associate of mine bought one BRAND NEW for 17,000.00. It had a little Cummins diesel in it. A bakery firm had over ordered and backed out of a large part of the already built and painted fleet. He got it with the silver and blue Entenman's colors sans Entenman's logo decals. Mine had never been painted and was all natural aluminum. Whatta' airframe!

Read the Grumman-Olson propaganda and scroll down to see the red 'n white stepvan from Ontario, Canada. That's what's cookin'.

Parts? I used to have a sheet metal guy who specialized in aircraft and buses work on mine and he was reasonable. He even improved on some of Grumman's ideas when he made parts. (Which were all fashioned out of flat aluminum sheet.)

Grumman sells mega oldstyle parts as well due to massive existing fleets of breadvans out there.

These guys are just the tip of the iceberg in the aftermarket for Grumman body panels.

Underneath they're all GM off the shelf van parts available at any dealer. (Everyone I ever met with a Ford-based Grumman had front end and overheating problems.)

This message was edited by Sheik_Yerbouhti on 08/04/02 06:08.13.

I think the best vehicle is relative to the size of your company. Mine is about as small as they come. (just me and a couple of techs) I have entertained all of the ideas above. If you are doing your own installs and sales calls then I believe this requires 2 different types of vehicles. But in this position it's hardly practicle to shift from install van to a suitable sales vehicle. Many times I've come from an install strait to a sales call and stoped somewhere to change. (Maybe I'm just anal, but I believe in appropriate appearance)
So here's what works for me.
I drive a Ford Expedition (Eddy Bower, I might add) for sales calls and I attach the 14' cargo trailor for installs and equipment pickup and delivery. With a fold down rear door and side door at the front it makes for the perfect solution. (for me) The front half is dedicated to tool storage and wire. I can fit 3 ladders, 1 4' step and 2 erector style(the kind that can be used for scaffolding, saw horses, etc.) 2 full size portable tool boxes, all the glow rods imaginable and plenty of wire and bins. Vacume, specialty tools, spare parts.....the list goes on.
As for the rear half if is dedicated to gear. I recently transported a 56",65" widescreens and a 50" plasma complete with all the surround equipment for the system. (The front and rear of the trailor is devided by a 4' wall.) My favorite part is being able to move freely within the tool carral and being out of the weather when needed. It's great!
The side of the trailor works as a great billboard too!
Once again I think the solution is relative to your position in the game. One day I'll be posting an add in the local paper to sell the trailor, but for now it works great for me.
I've worked out of a van, suv, and a truck-quad cab dually (wasn't very practical but I was forced into it) and this takes the cake.
As for theft issues, they'll always be there. All we can do is lock em up tight and arm them.
Hope this helps.
CMack

Yeah, depending upon the size of your installs comes into play. Try jamming that 60 inch into an areostar or something...

I've had the most luck with Ford Econoline vans with the appropriate drawers etc. A nice ladder rack is a must too. We have some storage tubes on the rack also, they really cut down on the clutter inside. Put all your unistrut and threaded rod in there...also antenna masts.

Of all the vehicles our company has used, our favorite is a GM van with the Grumman box on the back end...two passengers up front, suprising amount of equipment and tools in the box. Relatively low load deck, holds up to a 65" tv in box with an average A/V system and all our tools, parts, & ladders at the same time. Only downside is poor gas mileage, but we charge for drive time at our base labor rate, so we come out okay. The roll up door has not been any trouble. We attached sheets of 3/4" plywood to the box's interior sidewall rails; this provides a great place to mount parts bins, hang cables & ladders, etc.. We back it up to our building's parking lot wall at night; very secure (unless someone really dedicated pulled a canopener on the top). The side walls of the box provide billboard space. Happy hunting!

Box vans are nice, but the smaller ones are nearly all built on domestic V-8 van chassis' and score poorly on fuel economy, and are hard to service. After 50,000 miles that engine cover is going to be coming off on a regular basis.

Also, you need to know exactly who's going to be driving it - if it's just you, you can (will) get used to the box van's tendency to overhang the curb a bit when parking or pulling up to a right turn in traffic. ~~ If you're going to let hired help drive it, then the mailboxes, curbside newspaper machines, (pedestrian's kneecaps?!) WILL FEEL THE WRATH.. eventually.

Ryder has some little import diesel boxvans with small dual tyres (for the Brits) on the back axle, which puts the deck height down lower for loading stuff. Besides the copious space in the back, that points up another advantage of a boxvan: Flat floor all the way to the front with no wheelwells.

Those little diesel tilt-cabs are easy to maintenance, almost never need maintenance, get excellent mileage, are extremely maneuverable, and as for comfort you'll think you're riding in a small import pickup, noise level and all.

I rented one for a week from Hertz/commercial and the first thing I did was turn it in a complete circle on a typical residential street which it did with no problems. This was probably a 10 to 12" box on a GM branded Izusu Turbo NPR which was quite a tidy package and parked anywhere. If I were shopping new I'd look at Hino or Mitsubishi Fuso chassis'.

I truly like the Stepvans but if you rent one of these import-based boxvans you'll never want to let go of it, and you'll be trying to find out when the next purge of fleet vehicles is coming up so you can get a used Ryder or some other rental company's used truck. Hey! Budget's on the ropes (bankruptcy filing), see if you can find one of their little trucks in a fire sale:

15 Foot Box Truck
Capacity: 3-4 rooms (1-2 bedrooms)
Cubic Feet: 790
Interior (L x W x H): 15' x 7' 6" x 6' 11"
Rear Door (H x W): 6' 5" x 7'1"
Payload: 2,580 - 3,000 lbs.
Features: Air Conditioning, automatic transmission, power steering, power brakes, AM/FM stereo, 37 gallon gas/diesel tank, walk ramps and lift-gates available, no wheel wells

(A 15' van-body on a cabover chassis is roughly the length of a Ford Excursion.)

Isuzu makes the Duramax Diesel engine. Only downside is the cost. Paired with the allison automatic though it's good for even a hard-driven 200K miles. Depending on what you plan on using the vehicle for, will be the deciding factor. If you want to use this vehicle for everything, including hauling around large pieces of gear like rear projection TV's and big speakers, step van's might be the best idea. We've got a 1980 Chevy Step Van 30 production vehicle. Powered by a 350 V-8. 3rd or 4th motor to go into it. It's really underpowered or overloaded. 3 Speed auto tranny makes no sense to me either. I've always wondered why people got diesels, I got mine for the power, more torque than a Ford Powersuck, no matter what Ford wants you to believe. Plus I get about 24MPG emptu, 20MPG pulling a 16' trailer loaded with (4) 4-wheelers, and a cab full of rather bulky guys. Find one of those Isuzu van's Sheik talked about and you'll probably make the best decision.

I called Grumman Support and asked about putting a V-8 in mine = they said "If you really want a 100mph stepvan on flat ground, go ahead and drop a 350 - if you are going to pull hills, loaded, keep the 292 inline six." o I cannot say enough about the 292 - it pulls harder when loaded. Mine was a 4-Spd standard w/ 1st being a granny low. A good drivetrain combo.

RE: The smaller cabover diesel boxvans; I think it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. In other words in the smaller chassis' they're all pretty much in the same class. Although I'd still favor Hino, there's bound to be a plethora of Isuzu's out there due to the rebranding from GMC and Chevy.

LoL, I'm a huge fan of Inline 6's. My wife's next vehicle is going to be an Envoy. I'm not sure why it's got a 350 in it, it won't do anything close to 100, barely gets up to 65, has decent low end torque, but it needs another gear. GM will always get my nod for drivetrains. I like my Diesel for the gobs of grunt it has low on the tach, continuing pretty far into it. Beats everything except the 8.1L big block off the line, and my buddy's high performance Ford 460 in his 78 mud truck. Comparing a diesel to the inline six isn't quite fair, but comparing it to a V-8, the diesel is worth the extra bucks up front, it pays off with the fuel efficiency, and reliability. And Cali doesn't give diesels hell in the winter.

I don't know if we're getting off track or not - that depends on how serious Tom Ciaramitaro is about a strictly work vehicle, or if he needs to buy a dual (multi?) purpose vehicle that he can use for domestic transportation as well. If this is a production work vehicle the step van and Japanese diesel boxvans are the top contenders.


I don't think I'm really trying to compare diesels to inline sixes, and besides that when you graduate up in classes most of the import diesels are inline sixes.

In all honesty the Isuzu NPR boxvan I rented (with a rockin' automatic transmission) would outperform my Grumman stepvan in every nearly every category: Drag race, maneuvering, load capacity, ease of loading, COMFORT. The one place the Grumman would SMOKE the NPR's was on the grades.

If it's a steel stepvan, RUN FROM IT, if it's a Grumman stepvan, consider it, if it's a small cabover diesel and it's anywhere near the price of the stepvan it's a no-brainer - the little diesel wins the logic race. Or you could buy a PT Cruiser and have Inspector Gadget create all your job tools. (Including the pry-bar I'd need to get myself in/out of a PT.)

added: oIf you DO consider a stepvan, and start shopping used fleet from bakerys, STAY AWAY from anything made by 'Holiday Rambler' !! Their big sales pitch was that they were extra wide - the problem is that with a little distraction they will clean all the traffic lights, street lights, and parking meters off the sidewalk. Notice the frequency of right side front end damage when you see an "HR" van. Also I had a bread guy tell me that his lifted a front wheel in a high wind.

This message was edited by Sheik_Yerbouhti on 08/05/02 23:34.37.