Do I need to be careful about where I route emitter wire? Can it be near AC? How about near speaker wire? Could it either cause interference in the speakers or pick up interference from the speaker wire? Also, if I used cat 5 couldn't it resist interference from outside sources more than using 18 ga. copper stranded?
I'm in the final stages of wiring my theater room and want to run a cat 5 to the front for any future contingencies. I also want to run some to my Lutron dimmer system. I have three sps-600 dimmers in one gang box, do I need to run three wires, or will one cat 5 do? The problem is that to run these wires it's going to be tuff to keep them away from any other wiring. Thanks for any advise!

From my experience, aside from which company's equipment you are using, I found the Xantech stuff can be conducted practically with my fingers with no problems at all.

I've used RG-6, RG-59, 22/4 shielded and non shielded, alarm zipcord, cat-5, even old 300 ohm wire...hehehehe.

I did, however, get alot of grieve from Niles Tech, many years ago. They insisted their cable was needed to assure good conduction. Poo on them! But I guess they worked of few things out perhaps.

As for interference, I don't think it's an issue. The IR signal output, I believe, is very minute and couldn't harm my grandfathers earpiece with any noise.

The most common cable to splice in and extend IR is stranded 22/2 plus drain. Use it if you have it. Pro sound contractors have similar cable for use as microphone wire that makes a great IR cable.

UTP for teledata use (CAT-3/5/5e/6) will make a decent substitute, but use good splices if you use solid core. Crushable dolphins or the 3M button splices are favorites of the pros here, there is a thread a few pages deep in the forum to elaborate.

Xantech even has a preferred wiring diagram to take advantage of the twisted construction of UTP to reduce the chance of interference.
It was in one of their bibles tht they used to give out. I can't find mine, and I have it written in my quick reference cheat sheet of wiring and cable specs in my portfolio which is not with me now.

I'm sure some other salty old pro has it memorized and can post it right away... anyone??

I remember a Xantech training about 10 years ago where wiring was being discussed, the trainer said one install at a ranch used the 3 runs of barbed wire that were in place on a split rail fence to get IR from an outbuilding to the house a few hundred yards away.

True or not, that is an awesome story.

Thanks for the replys. I have one other question though, cat 5 has 4 pairs of twisted wires and I need three emitters. Can I use three of these pairs to splice three emitters onto them? Then stick each emitter to the back of each of my three sps-600 dimmers? I guess there wouldn't be a need to run more than one cat 5. Is this right?

That should work. If not, try running barbed wire.

Xantech recommends to use all 4 white strands for ground, two colored for +12, and two colored for signal.

You might also want to look intio using a Lutron GRX-CIR and the Muxlink cable, or adding a master control in the front of the room.

Running a cat 5 into a 120V box WILL break NEC code.

"Xantech recommends to use all 4 white strands for ground, two colored for +12, and two colored for signal."



Does that mean I need to run a seperate cat 5 cable for each emitter?

Yes, you should.
Single strands of 24 ga. solid is not enough copper for those runs.
UTP cabling is cheap.

And thanks to thefish, that is what I was speaking of, and someone probably has the colors code that was officially published by Xantech that we should use as the "standard"....
It doesn't matter as long as you know how it was wired and wire it the same on each end of each run, and that you use the twisted pairs to your advantage.

There is another wiring diagram that breaks out the stripes on the power colors for status on IR receivers.

the solids of two pairs for signal
the 2 stripes from the pairs used above for ground (twisted against the signal run for noise rejection)
the two remaining solids for power positive
the two remaining stripes as the status line

I have controlled 3 Spacers with 1 emitter, the ones I used had the clear backs with the IR receivers visible, then just stuck the emitter between 2 spacers and it shot through to the 3rd with no problems., But I have heard that the spacers bought at the local Home depot/Lowes are different and have sloid backs so an emitter would have to go on the fron so you would need 3

Glack

Well, yeah, but that is for running from a SENSOR to a distribution point. The question is about running from a distribution point to one or more LEDs.

The thing about CAT5 is that you want to use pairs to minimize any kind of stray pickup. You are not likely to have any pickup on an LED wire anyway, as it is of such low impedance, but the signal could be affected by the capacitance of a long run of wire.

To run to three LEDs, take three of the four pairs. Run the hot on the solid color wire, the ground on the white + solid. Note that this is just for consistency and to make sense. It does not matter electrically which wire you use, but if you do not do it systematically, you will have a hard time figuring it out later.

Really, though, if you want to run a signal to three LEDs some distance away, you should put a distribution block at the extreme end (where the LEDs will go), then connect the IR bus to the CAT5. Connect all four solid color wires to the SIGNAL lead on the sensor, connect all four white + solid wires to the GROUND lead. This way you will have the least amount of possible interference.

And don't put the LEDs inside the electrical boxes, as mentioned elsewhere. They have to be outside to meet code, be safe, and never kill anyone. Really.


Of course, this is a product which TELLS YOU to run the low-voltage wire inside the electrical box. Larry, how do they get away with that?



Exactly.

Definitely ROFL.

The "low volt" lutron cable is rated for 600V, so it's not really "low volt". And if I recall correctly, it sends the control signal over line voltage.

At the Lutron trainings they say that you can use a Xantech emitter to flash commands from a routed IR system, but they get kind of vague about how. The best method I heard of involves placing the flasher on the outside of the box over one of the small holes in a metallic box, and secure it with a few wraps of Super 33 or an equivelant high quality tape. Obviously, this only works if you have the right kind of metallic box with the holes along the back or sides. If this is an open wall like in NC or remodel, then this is super easy.

The mux link cable is for GRX ststems that have IR terminals on them, and you have to use Lutrons IR pickup because it's different IR distribution than the Xantech system. Lutrons IR sensor looks like a flying saucer. This is a moot point, because none of the Spacer or Spacer System dimmers have a terminal for mux link.

The Spacer sold at home centers is the original Spacer, Spacer System dimmers can be controlled together and respond to preset commands.

Here's what I could find in the 2002 NEC that may be pertinent:


725.2 Definitions. For purposes of this article, the following definitions apply.

Class 1 Circuit.
The portion of the wiring system between the load side of the overcurrent device or power-limited supply and the connected equipment. The voltage and power limitations of the source are in accordance with 725.21.

Class 2 Circuit.
The portion of the wiring system between the load side of a Class 2 power source and the connected equipment. Due to its power limitations, a Class 2 circuit considers safety from a fire initiation standpoint and provides acceptable protection from electric shock.

Class 3 Circuit.
The portion of the wiring system between the load side of a Class 3 power source and the connected equipment. Due to its power limitations, a Class 3 circuit considers safety from a fire initiation standpoint. Since higher levels of voltage and current than Class 2 are permitted, additional safeguards are specified to provide protection from an electric shock hazard that could be encountered.


725.26 Conductors of Different Circuits in the Same Cable, Cable Tray, Enclosure, or Raceway.
Class 1 circuits shall be permitted to be installed with other circuits as specified in 725.26(A) and (B).

(A) Two or More Class 1 Circuits.
Class 1 circuits shall be permitted to occupy the same cable, cable tray, enclosure, or raceway without regard to whether the individual circuits are alternating current or direct current, provided all conductors are insulated for the maximum voltage of any conductor in the cable, cable tray, enclosure, or raceway.

(B) Class 1 Circuits with Power Supply Circuits.
Class 1 circuits shall be permitted to be installed with power supply conductors as specified in 725.26(B)(1) through (B)(4).

(1) In a Cable, Enclosure, or Raceway.
Class 1 circuits and power supply circuits shall be permitted to occupy the same cable, enclosure, or raceway only where the equipment powered is functionally associated.

(2) In Factory- or Field-Assembled Control Centers.
Class 1 circuits and power supply circuits shall be permitted to be installed in factory- or field-assembled control centers.

725.55 Separation from Electric Light, Power, Class 1, Non–Power-Limited Fire Alarm Circuit Conductors, and Medium Power Network-Powered Broadband Communications Cables.

(A) General.
Cables and conductors of Class 2 and Class 3 circuits shall not be placed in any cable, cable tray, compartment, enclosure, manhole, outlet box, device box, raceway, or similar fitting with conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm circuits, and medium power network-powered broadband communications circuits unless permitted by 725.55(B) through (J).

(B) Separated by Barriers.
Class 2 and Class 3 circuits shall be permitted to be installed together with Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm and medium power networkpowered broadband communications circuits where they
are separated by a barrier.

(C) Raceways Within Enclosures.
In enclosures, Class 2 and Class 3 circuits shall be permitted to be installed in a raceway to separate them from Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm and medium power network-powered broadband communications circuits.

(D) Associated Systems Within Enclosures.
Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors in compartments, enclosures, device boxes, outlet boxes, or similar fittings shall be permitted to be installed with electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm, and medium power networkpowered broadband communications circuits where they are introduced solely to connect the equipment connected to Class 2 and Class 3 circuits, and where (1) or (2) applies:

(1) The electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm, and medium power network-powered broadband communications circuit conductors are routed to maintain a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) separation from the conductors and cables of Class 2 and Class 3 circuits.

(2) The circuit conductors operate at 150 volts or less to ground and also comply with one of the following:

a. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuits are installed using Type CL3, CL3R, or CL3P or permitted substitute cables, provided these Class 3 cable conductors extending beyond the jacket are separated by a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) or by a nonconductive sleeve or nonconductive barrier from all other conductors.

b. The Class 2 and Class 3 circuit conductors are installed as a Class 1 circuit in accordance with 725.21.