We are just starting a new custom installation company. We want to design, install and support subsystems that are tied into a master system. The subsystems would include Home Theater, Home Automation (security, lighting, HVAC,...), Distributed A/V, Home Networking, Away from home, etc.

We are not targeting the high end with products like Crestron. We want to target the middle of the market.

How do you guys rank Vantage Controls vs. Control4, HAI, HomeLogic, etc.?

Thanks,
RedDirt

Vantage makes a very good lighting control system. I have in the past had problems w/ thier thermostats getting out of sync. I have not used thier home theater box. What makes Vantage different than the other companies you have listed is that they make a lighting control panel ( the lighting loads are distributed from a central point, not replacement wall box dimmers). You may end up using Vantage w/ those other systems. As far as ranking the systems Control4 has no track record, HAI is a security system that does some automation, HomeLogic does have some touchscreen and interfaces to other products(including Vantage) but they don't make lighting or AV controllers. I guess the above list of companies are very different and you may actually end up using a few of them.

Paul

They have little relationship to one another. Vantage is a lighting system with some control capabilities and is a high-end product. Their competition is Lutron and Litetouch. Control 4 is for practical purposes vaporware so far and the other products are more middle market.

I would not call Vantage "middle market" but high-end and I would think if you could sell Vantage you would ALSO want to be selling Crestron or AMX because the customer that can afford one can afford the other and they would often be put in together.

There might be some wiggle room here. Other than the fact that I agree that Control4 has to date produced vapor ware I do think Vantage is attempting to offer a product that attempts to be more than a lighting control system. Yes, it's primary products are related to lighting controls but their software attempts to provide more control over systems then would be possible or wise with Lutron or LiteTouch.

To read into his post a bit, are there other alternatives to Crestron or AMX at lower price points. One might argue that Vantage HAI and should they ever bring a working product to market, Control4, are attempting to serve this market. Mr. Roddey does have an arguement even if he does not understand how to market his product. Ever since Crestron sent out consultants to "educate" its dealers on changing market conditions last year I have been having a running talmudic discussion with a few in the industry about these changed conditions.

The real discussion ought to be on the feasability of whole house control at lower price points. Should one attempt to kludge a system from Vantage's software? Should one attempt to use HAI as anything more than a security system if one is not a DIY?

I do believe Mr Roddey has a very good point. As there are only so many of your clients to be had and the majority of those remaining are value orriented should one attempt to appease their desires to integrate using off the shelf software and products or using products that do not provide the wiggle room for the integration firm when problems ensue. Crestron and AMX do not need to change as they are selling plenty of products at the prices they are charging. But a Control4 will come to market and I do believe Mr.Roddey is correct about the price of off the shelf components. Whether lower price points are good or bad they do seem inevitable.

It may not be wise to attept to integrate using off the shelf products if one doesn not have the intellectual and or experiencial knowledge required but it may be inevitable. Of the choices above if I had to choose now it would be Vantage as their software is powerful enought to permit integration. I do doubt they will be able to support all of your efforts and should you have any problems you may be on your own a bit. I am not sure an off the shelf solution of the sort Control4 expects and which will soon be sold at Best Buy and Walmart wil yield the results everyone expects. It may not be wise to help Control4 to test their product so that the giant box movers can mussel into this market but it may too much to hope that we do not participate in our own demise much in the same way we cut our throats by saving a few sheckles shopping at Walmart.

Alan

We use Vantage all the time for just this purpose, "mid market" where the client is educated and needs a very elegant solution without the added expense (or tricked out GUI's of the C & AMX crowd).
We often tie Vantage to AMX and it works great.

However, around 50% of our particular clientele really enjoy Vantage on it's own with there thouchscreens and maybe a few RTI's T2+.

Here's an example

178 Lighting Loads (Centralized Diming panels)
12 Plug-in Radiolink Dimmers
7 Wall-Box Scenepoint dimmers
18 Audio Zones (B&K) (RS-232)
Audio ReQuest (RS-232)
3 5.1 Set-ups (AVR, DVD, TIVO, PLASMA, ETC..) (IR & RS-232)
2 Composite/2 Ch set-ups (RS-232 to plasmas, IR to sources)
6 HVAC Zones
Security (APEX RS-232)
Garage Dooors (Relay & Contact closure)
Hot Tub (RS-232)
Electric Gate (Relay & Contact Closure)
10 Motorized shades (RS-232)
4 Wall mount C5 Video touchscreens around the house
+ 3 RTI's w/Vantage IR code (remotes can be used in any room, as the IR Rcvr's are "zoned" within the software to know the location the operator is in, and which equipment needs to be controlled)

All of which we have connected TCP/IP to a wireless WAP to make changes on the fly (literally) whenever the client wants an upgrade (NO compiling!)

Now, like I mentioned before, your not going to get all that "modero" sexiness with the GUI, but Vantage can handle everything else just fine.