I've noticed that half of my replies on these threads seem to mention the Harmony in one way or another.

So I figured I would get some feedback on why most of you seem to prefer the HTM or Pronto remotes, I've programmed and used both of them - and the Harmony seems to surpass them in every way. In fact we've started to introduce the Harmony to people who already have Prontos and HTM remotes - and every customer has preferred what the Harmony will do.

Our customers prefer the Harmony layout, the ease of activity-based control, the way it remembers equipment status so it only turns on what you need, the fact it's relatively cheap - basically they love them.

We prefer the fact it's easy to program, it solves any issues caused by discrete codes, it's easy to sell because of the price, they reduce service callbacks to pretty much zero, we can change minor programming issues over the internet without even having to revisit the customer's house, the helpline is amazingly helpful - in fact we love them too.

I know it doesn't have RF, but aside from that, I don't see any issues.

The reason i don't and won't use the harmony remote is that about a year ago (maybe longer) one of the main guys from harmony came in with the rep and explained to us the virtue of his remote. Sounded like a wonderful premise and a great remote but after lunch he said lets go program one for one of your theaters and i'll prove how easy it is. Two hours later he still hadn't made the first thing work, had made numerous phone calls to tech support and finally gave up telling me the McIntosh preamp and Dwin projector were just finicky and his remote would wouk fine on a more normal system.
Well Damn it that is normal (Maybe not always the Mc) but it has all discretes and so does the Dwin. I can make an MX700 or old Marantz RC5000 do anything i want in a very short period of time and at least in my one experience i can make either one of them do more. I can take a MX3000 or RC9500 and make big beautiful buttons for older customers who are scared of "all those buttons" or i can give the most tech savy customer every control (including ones not on the remote)

Sorry for the long rant but i do lots and lots of remotes and that is one i just don't care for. Fool me once shame on me fool me twice, kick me in my #$$

I like Harmony remotes, but I think each has it's use. There are stuff that I like about my Harmony that I miss on the Pronto and viceversa. There are stuff that I can do with my Harmony that I cannot with the Pronto and viceversa. To me it is not a matter of one being better then the other. For instance at home I have many channel icons on my Pronto, on the Harmony it is more tedious, at my old job where I programmed several Prontos to control videoconference rooms it was useful to have a room layout and match it to different zoom presets, that way the user could go in and press a chair or the table and the camera would automatically zoom in on the appropriate chair or zoom out to the whole room. I loved and still love the guide on the Harmony and I changed all the 12 digit pad on it into channel macros (it does mean I am the only one that knows what pressing 1 or * does, but I am the only one that uses it.

Another good reason not to use them is the fact that they're being marketed as DIY products and sold at BB. The HTM line is not.

Well I can see the marketing might cause issues with people just wanting to try it themselves. It's not caused a problem for us so far though, even the people who have seen it for themselves still ask us to program it - as they recognise we can do it it much faster than them.

In terms of it not controlling equipment, honestly I think you just had a bad experience, try programming one yourself - I bet you can get it to work in under 2 hours.

I can understand the Pronto customising thing though, a good Pronto setup is worthwhile. The only thing I would say is it can take a while to tweak the Pronto - I can do a Harmony from start to finish in just under an hour on a standard TV/DVD/VCR/cable box/receiver setup. So for speed's sake, I still prefer Harmony - I guess it does depend how much time you allow for programming.

Fisher, I'm with you on this. I can actually get a configuration running in under an hour as well. The code database that Logitch has for that thing is unbelievable. The only hassle is sometimes you need to reassign button behaviors. No service calls is a major plus. For those of us who actually write the checks around here, that is a major plus. I just reviewed my list of client Prontos, and its over 250 right now. I would love to have back all of the time I've spent fixing pronto issues at no charge.

agree, and that is one of the strong point of the Harmony remote. Your question was why the others, and that was what I was answering, that each remote has its advantages and so one remote might fit one situation better while one of the other remotes might fit a different situation better.

Yes indeed, I wasn't arguing. :) I think your comments were pretty well-blanaced. To be honest, I can see the advantages of the Pronto - although I hate programming it with a passion - but I really can't see why so many people still use the HTM remotes aside from the RF support.

Had the same experience with the rep trying to pass the "simple" to program test.

Plus 1: Clients that have bifocals don't have to remove them to watch TV - they'll need em to read the buttons and LCD (But why not just make BIGGER BUTTONS AND LCD?!#).

Plus 2: Baby sitter for a poorly planned (toad list) A/V system. It asks the client the same burning questions the installer would if they could just get a hold of him.

Plus. Minus. What's the difference?

However, if I have discretes and bulletproof workarounds why do I need to squint and work a Harmony?

I wil refuse to sell them because BB sells them. I have had two customers not purchase remotes from me, and buy them from BB. I went back to one custoemrs house and the programming on the remote was all screwed up. Macros were not right etc.

I personall like the MX700, 800,850, hardbutton remotes. Most of my custoemrs feel the same way. Big LCD, Big Buttons, very reliable. The MX800/850 w/ the RF base is pretty tough to beat.

The pronto's are also nice, except the touchscreens (too small). I also had two Neo's with the screens go out. Programming can sometimes suck.

The RTI's are great. RF is crazy and programming is a piece of cake. I had several T2's with screens go bad.

Mike

Fisher,

I think the reason some of the installers don't like the Harmony is very simple... MARGIN! They don't make as much money on a Harmony. Since their customers don't usually choose the remote, they choose something that makes them better money. The thread from AHEM above is either expressing fear that he won't get the business (Harmony is trying to make this simple enough to take away his job) or that because it is sold through channels who will gladly undercut his price, he doesn't want to offer it.

As far as the layout of the remote... what do you feel is so clearly superior?

I like the flexibility of the Pronto, but would really like to see it add hard keys for #'s, transport controls, and a joypad. The pronto is supported very strongly on this forum. I can often find IR codes on this forum, and editing them in the Pronto software is quite easy. I've used the Harmony and Pronto's, and think if the Harmony website has codesets for the devices you need, and the user entering them did a good job, it goes quickly. I've never found that to happen. I don't like trying to capture IR codesets with the Harmony... It's just painful. On average, I think someone who is good at setting up Pront's can match the speed of setting up a Harmony. In the end, I don't see the Harmony as superior to the Pronto as you, it has stengths and weaknesses.

I like the number of hard keys on the HTM, but the screen is weak. Having to play games because you have a very limited number of characters for each key can be messy, but the Harmony exhibits this issue as well. The HTM line does things the folks at Harmony have likely never thought about: How do you control multiple pieces of identical gear with a Harmony? The HTM can do this nicely. The RF is a great feature... Daniel needs a lot of fluffy blanket to keep RF from getting through, and it doesn't matter if the remote isn't pointing at the equipment for the full time of a macro!

I don't get your comments about only turning on the equipment needed. If the devices have discrete on and off, this can be done with the HTM or Pronto very easily. I've seen setups for the pronto that handle this even for components that don't have discrete on and off. The setup does what the harmony does by going through intermediate screens that look identical but have different macros that handle turning on and off only what is needed. Is this better set up on the Harmony... yes, but only if the support people at harmony get it set up right in the codeset, and In the three cases I tried, they didn't have it set up correctly.

In the end, I'll continue to choose equipment whenever possible that supports discrete commands. I haven't seen the perfect remote yet... so I don't think the Harmony is superior, it simply has strengths and weaknesses.

So how long have you worked for Logitech?

True all remotes have pros and cons, but he harmony is way too heavy on the con side. If you prefer to provide your clients with a controller that works and can be modified to suit any system the harmony is a POS.

But if you want to appeal to a mass market / best buy customer an internet based POS is gold.

I was just wondering the same thing. You beat me to it.

I have to agree the buttons are way to small/close on the harmony remotes. I think the concept is great but the finished product lacks a few things. We use mostly touchscreens (prontos/mx-3000) for our customers because we can totally customize the remote. We can add help pages, this, that, and other things as well. A lot of our clients are late 40's and considerably older. With a touchscreen they don't have to remember what a button does when in a certain mode because we can label them. We also use the MX500, 850, remotes. My biggest complaint with them are the limited lcd character spaces but other than that they are solid performers.

But Why re-invent the wheel if you are not going to improve the wheel. Sure the harmony does some neat things but overall I think I can still do more with a pronto or HTM. Throwing a 3rd remote into our system lineup just means more inventory and more training for installers. As far as programming a pronto/HTM. If you want to talk plain jane, no thrills I guarantee you I can program either just as fast if not faster than you can program a harmony.

BTW, I've played with the harmony but am not up to speed. How do you figure no service calls on them????

Thanks
Robbie S

Its been a while since I used a Harmony remote, but I dont remember anthing that excited me. Dont get me wrong it was nice but thr no RF and IR routing was the biggest turn off.

You stated
[Our customers prefer the Harmony layout, the ease of activity-based control, the way it remembers equipment status so it only turns on what you need, the fact it's relatively cheap - basically they love them.]

The Mx3000 has this ability also but we would never use it because all you would need for a service call would be the first power failure or somebody simply turning the equipment on manually. Correct me if I'm wrong, does the Harmony simply remember the last power command given? That doesnt seem to be to reliable especially w/ an IR only remote.

Takes 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours for a tight setup on an 850 (once you have a bit of experience).

We give 'em a music page with 20 to 30 satellite or cable box music stations on it.
Press "Music"
Select "Jazz", you got music
When done, press "off" - Everything goes off, reverts back to main page.

Now, there's a coolness factor.

We stick Z2, Surround & Lighting functions under the FAV button. Simple.
The MRF-250 RF interface, rarely a troubleshoot. Reliable.

Takes about 10 minutes to train the thickest of clients. No scribbled notes.

If we pay attention to detail, we only get calls from their friends. We make money, and they know we deserve it.

One more thing, if any a/v manufacturer produced cars, they'd put the gas pedal in the trunk one year and under the back seat the next. The MX's and Prontos essentially stick the gas pedal where it belongs to literally standardize the system.

Harmony? What kind of employee would you like to hire: one that has been trained to do exactly what needs to be done and does it or the type that asks you the same dumb questions every day just to get started? Hint: one costs you $5/hr to babysit.

BB competition? bla.