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Topic:
Remoting 8 on/off switches wirelessly
This thread has 23 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 24.
Post 16 made on Sunday October 25, 2020 at 19:46
buzz
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ftbrady,

IR or RF is simply transport through the floor. You still need some sort of appliance downstairs to decode the signal and operate the relays.

Here is some food for thought. You will still need some shielding for the relay driver end of the link, but the actual link will be RF proof.
OP | Post 17 made on Sunday October 25, 2020 at 21:03
ftbrady
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I found a Show Me Cables product called "Choice Select 8-Port IR Distribution Hub"
It has 8 "From IR emitter" connections - each connection has 3 pins (+ - S).
It has 8 "To IR emitter" connections - each connection has 2 pins (+ -).
It seems (to me) that the product allows up to 8 IR transmitter with the same signal characteristics (38 khz modulated IR light) to drive 8 separate receivers - but I don't understand how it works or how it is wired to the IR TX and RX components. The "features" list states "Single band targets only". Does anyone know if this could be used in my application? I don't see where the "wireless" part comes in unless it modifies the IR channel signals to be uniquely identified by receiver components? But, if so, wouldn't it require specially matched receivers?
Frank Brady W0ECS
Post 18 made on Sunday October 25, 2020 at 23:17
buzz
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Here is another optical USB extender. It is more plug and play. One point I noticed is that it is FCC Class A. FCC Class B products would be more appropriate for your application. Class B certified products will emit less and symmetrically, be less susceptible to external RF energy.

I doubt that the IR gadget you found will be useful. IR control is normally one transmitter to many receivers via direct optical. In situations where direct optical is not possible one uses an optical receiver to wire converter and connect the wire to an LED attached to the controlled device. This is a one to one situation, parallel connected LED's are not welcome. Sometimes simple parallel connected IR receivers will work, but one should not assume this. Using the Choice Select device you could have multiple optical receiver devices connected to multiple emitters and receivers and emitters are isolated from each other. From a logical control standpoint all receivers and emitters are connected in parallel. For example; there is no ability to route receiver 'A' to output 'c' only. IR receiver output 'A' is sent to all output ports.

For your application you would need an IR transmitter able to send at least eight unique codes and a decoder device that would key one of eight relays in response to a unique IR code. You could then use a simple "Ir Repeater"/"IR Extender" to send IR commands to a remote (wired) location. You need a decoder box of some sort that can decode IR commands and key the relays. In this scheme there would not be any conducting path between the IR transmitter and the decoder.

I stumbled over this wireless IR Repeater. I have no experience with this device and I doubt that it would work well in your high RF field environment. On the plus side there would not be any wires between locations.

Since you already have a USB scheme that mostly works, all you need is a way fortify it against the high RF field. This may be as simple as enclosing your endpoints in a metal box, bypassing the DC control lines to the relays, and adding a few ferrite beads.
Post 19 made on Monday October 26, 2020 at 00:24
buzz
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Here is a completely different scheme. I have no experience with this device and I can imagine that you could have some RF interference issues with it.

And here is a range of relay controllers.
Post 20 made on Monday October 26, 2020 at 08:08
highfigh
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Here's a link for a 6 channel relay set- I saw a photo of a 12 channel version, too-

[Link: ebay.com]

I found this in less than a minute- I typed 'multi channel RF controlled 12V relay'
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 21 made on Monday October 26, 2020 at 13:11
ftbrady
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Wow, you guys really jumped all over this. I've eliminated the RF hangups of the USB controller and my computer by installing a separate 12vdc linear power supply in the basement. But, in case I want to run more than 100w RF power later on, I'm still going to experiment with the ebay 16 channel remote relay controller highfigh suggested - $22 is cheap enough that I won't mind if I can't break into the hand held remote wiring. It's been great - good luck in all of your project adventures. Many thanks to all of you.
Frank Brady W0ECS
OP | Post 22 made on Monday October 26, 2020 at 13:50
ftbrady
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FYI I ordered the ebay item and their confirmation email says your item should arrive Dec 8 2020 - oh well, I'm not going anywhere.
Frank Brady W0ECS
Post 23 made on Tuesday October 27, 2020 at 08:47
jey957
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Nice
Post 24 made on Wednesday October 28, 2020 at 16:22
Ernie Gilman
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I just realized that, while you talk of 8 relays, you have not told us how many combinations of these relays are needed. It could easily be a dozen, or as few as three, combinations. That will decide how complicated the control circuitry needs to be.

Let me offer an outrageously retro idea of how to handle this. The only thing that makes it not retro is that it will probably work great in an RF environment, especially if you use RF filtering on all power leads. You mentioned chokes, I believe; don't forget bypass capacitors.

Diode logic. That is, if in one case you need relays A, b, and iii turned on, take three diodes and run each one to a relay, one being A, one being b, and one being iii. Supplying voltage to that combo of three diodes turns on those three relays. Assemble separate diode combinations for the other combinations you need. Wire 'em all up. I once built a controller for a digitally addressed 8-position loudspeaker demonstration switch (MTI in Oregon, if it matters). The "controller" was several diodes, several switches, and an IC that latched eight outputs to whatever state they were in when a trigger voltage went to zero.

This involves custom work from the start, but you're then TOTALLY in control of all aspects of shielding.



On October 25, 2020 at 17:54, ftbrady said...
Ernie,
What is the name of the xmtr fob and receiver product? If clicking the fob can causes a switch to change state on the receiver, then I suppose all I have to deal with is

I've seen at least two brands, and they're not always in stock. For a long time I only saw these during Christmas season (that is, most any time after March 1...). Over the last several years these have been available year round at my local Home Depot. And I harvested the picture from the internet. Several models can be found there.

* replacing the xmtr button with two activation wires
* finding 8 different IR IDs

These are RF controlled, not IR controlled. Of course, your RF field might be a problem.
* wire the rcvr switch to a 12vdc supply to send to a relay.

Each receiver switch has a 120V power socket, so a wall wart on each would give you the switchable power.

NOTE: you can only switch one of these things at a time, which might introduce loading problems to your transmitter. On the other hand, if there are any places where two relays ALWAYS have to be switched at the same time, that's easy -- hook a wall wart's output to two relays.

I don't suppose there are any 8 channel versions of the product? Or products that expose their xmtr wiring rather than embedding it in a fob?

There are three channel versions, but I have no idea whether there's just one such product (i.e. with channels 1, 2, 3 only) or several (i.e. with other channel combinations).


Really, though, I offered those halfway as a joke, since they appear to be total misfits for any serious electronics that we are likely to do, yet their specs matched the overly general description of what was needed.


EDIT: I just caught up with where this thread has gone. It's an example of the breadth of knowledge and helpfulness this great group of people have to offer.

Last edited by Ernie Gilman on October 28, 2020 17:13.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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