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Topic:
Would you become a C4 dealer today?
This thread has 44 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
Post 31 made on Saturday October 17, 2020 at 13:17
Brad Humphrey
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On October 17, 2020 at 12:44, highfigh said...
They tell people that the best way to use their remotes/hubs is to create drivers for the devices- how does your definition of 'driver' differ from theirs?

F^ it, you people are not reading. I tried to make it clear I was talking about CCP and their HomePro remotes by saying 'URC Distribution' remotes in that post.
NOT TC!!!

Read post 26.
Post 32 made on Saturday October 17, 2020 at 16:41
buzz
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I went to a TC training session a few years ago and was not impressed. I felt constrained. I visited the URC booth at CEDIA last year and TC did not seem to have improved. RTI’s Apex suits me better.
Post 33 made on Saturday October 17, 2020 at 19:32
Brad Humphrey
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On October 17, 2020 at 16:41, buzz said...
I went to a TC training session a few years ago and was not impressed. I felt constrained. I visited the URC booth at CEDIA last year and TC did not seem to have improved. RTI’s Apex suits me better.

That's pretty wild, I think you are 1 of only 4 people on this board that feel that way. Most people hate trying to program Apex - it's horrible! I myself tried to sit down 3 different times for a few hours and figure it out (In addition to taking hours of their training). I never could get the hang of it, make it do what I needed it to do. I gave up. Only control system ever, I could never figure out to program fully.

URC TC on the other hand gave me no problems at all. And could do all kind of cool stuff with that. To bad they are typical New Yorkers and only care about numbers & quantity. Don't do the hard numbers, they cut you off. But at least you can still use the software, get updates, and service your existing customers.
Which is what started this whole thread, C4 is the only dirty SOBs that steal your customers away and force them to another dealer, if they decide to cut you off. Or your customer has to pay thousands (or even tens of thousands) for you to completely replace the system. Most customers are not going to be 'that' loyal.
Post 34 made on Saturday October 17, 2020 at 21:29
buzz
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Apex is not fun to learn. To me their descriptions are ‘upside down’ I have trouble keeping the hierarchy straight. If you are used to object programming, it’s easy to get the ‘scope’ mixed up and awkward to fix things later.
Post 35 made on Saturday October 17, 2020 at 22:11
Brad Humphrey
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On October 17, 2020 at 21:29, buzz said...
Apex is not fun to learn. To me their descriptions are ‘upside down’ I have trouble keeping the hierarchy straight. If you are used to object programming, it’s easy to get the ‘scope’ mixed up and awkward to fix things later.

The ones that did grasp APEX and are using it daily, seem to really like it. So I guess that is good. I always thought RTI had a very good option of control interfaces available (even if they drive on the wrong side of the road with the volume buttons). The reliability has always worried me however.
Post 36 made on Saturday October 17, 2020 at 23:32
buzz
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I should have been or explicit. I like Apex, it’s a great step up from ID. Some are complaining because they expected Apex to be ID on steroids. Unfortunately, Apex is a completely different approach, requiring a change in mindset and there is no simple, button click path to migrate an ID program to Apex. Maintenance or expanding a program to take on more rooms is much easier in Apex.

Yes, I have been through a few reliability issues.
Post 37 made on Sunday October 18, 2020 at 00:08
tomciara
Loyal Member
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On October 17, 2020 at 23:32, buzz said...
Yes, I have been through a few reliability issues.

Hmm, never heard that before!
"People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive." - Blaise Pascal
Post 38 made on Sunday October 18, 2020 at 08:12
Brad Humphrey
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It's funny, I have 3 RTI systems I took over in the range of 12-18 years ago?
One had an old T1 in it. The other two were T2+ remotes.
Those remotes are still going right now. I've replaced the batteries in them a few times. And have had to reprogram whenever something got updated/replaced in the system. But the customers like them (familiar with them) and they still work perfect.

Talking in general (not about any brands or type products); I often wonder just how many more pennies it would cost, to over build things like they use to. To make things actually last, instead of becoming e-waste in a few short years.
And worse yet, about the disease that has entered the minds of these companies to deliberately make product fail after a few years, to make people buy more e-waste.
Post 39 made on Monday October 19, 2020 at 16:20
Malcolm013
Long Time Member
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On October 17, 2020 at 19:32, Brad Humphrey said...
That's pretty wild, I think you are 1 of only 4 people on this board that feel that way. Most people hate trying to program Apex - it's horrible! I myself tried to sit down 3 different times for a few hours and figure it out (In addition to taking hours of their training). I never could get the hang of it, make it do what I needed it to do. I gave up. Only control system ever, I could never figure out to program fully.

URC TC on the other hand gave me no problems at all. And could do all kind of cool stuff with that. To bad they are typical New Yorkers and only care about numbers & quantity. Don't do the hard numbers, they cut you off. But at least you can still use the software, get updates, and service your existing customers.
Which is what started this whole thread, C4 is the only dirty SOBs that steal your customers away and force them to another dealer, if they decide to cut you off. Or your customer has to pay thousands (or even tens of thousands) for you to completely replace the system. Most customers are not going to be 'that' loyal.

I was told by the West Coast Sales Rep that you can no longer use their Accelerator software once you're no longer a dealer. He basically said I can no longer support any of my TC clients and that I can reach out to another local TC dealer for support!
"Was it for this my life I sought? Maybe so, Maybe not...
Post 40 made on Monday October 19, 2020 at 17:23
Duct Tape
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On October 19, 2020 at 16:20, Malcolm013 said...
I was told by the West Coast Sales Rep that you can no longer use their Accelerator software once you're no longer a dealer. He basically said I can no longer support any of my TC clients and that I can reach out to another local TC dealer for support!

you might not be able to download it, but it will still work and update just fine.
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 41 made on Tuesday October 20, 2020 at 00:34
Malcolm013
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On October 19, 2020 at 17:23, Duct Tape said...
you might not be able to download it, but it will still work and update just fine.

Guess I'll find out in a couple weeks! I better download the installer
"Was it for this my life I sought? Maybe so, Maybe not...
Post 42 made on Tuesday October 20, 2020 at 09:48
Rob Grabon
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So, cross RTI off the list.

Who's left?
Just URC?
And Crestron if you're a certified programmer.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 43 made on Tuesday October 20, 2020 at 14:59
Mr. Brad
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On October 20, 2020 at 09:48, Rob Grabon said...
So, cross RTI off the list.

Who's left?
Just URC?
And Crestron if you're a certified programmer.

You don't have to be a certified programmer anymore for Crestron Home. Programs on an iPad and works great. Free apps and it gets feature enhancements via updates. It's taken years, but finally here. It is so good, I'm reluctant to even promote it to competitors.
Post 44 made on Friday October 23, 2020 at 21:11
cshepard
Advanced Member
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I’ve worked for C4 dealers since 2007. It has come a long way since then. The product does pretty much everything we (and our clients) have needed it to do. There are two other C4 dealers in our area who are about the same size as us, but as far as I know we’ve been the most successful, at least over the past year or two. We’re in a smaller market, and there seems to be enough C4 business to go around. Unless things change, my preference would be to always offer C4.
Chris
Post 45 made on Sunday October 25, 2020 at 01:04 ...it's new!
HiFiRobbie
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I agonised over this for years until about 3 months ago when I finally pulled the trigger on becoming a dealer.

I had been doing my own jobs as a sub-dealer for about 3-4 years and when I finally got a job that put me comfortably over the initial entry point, I took the opportunity and did it.

As far as I could see, here in Australia, the only two options were Savant or C4, with RTI no longer even being in the running for me. And with Savant not having anywhere NEAR the range of drivers, it was pretty much a no-brainer. As for Crestron? Well, you don't need a Meyer line-array for listening to music in your living room.

My reasons for going the C4 route:

1) Support. NOBODY else in the industry has the support network that C4 has. Period. I can call them pretty much any time I'm on the tools and either get a solution, or a work-around, with one of their techs dialling-in via Team-Viewer whenever necessary. Last week I spent 1 hour and 15 minutes on the phone with them while we fulfilled a rather odd and specific request for a client. My last experience with RTI was a full mailbox on a mobile telephone number, which was what sealed the deal for me on walking away from them altogether. Come to think of it, I don't think they ever even got back to me.

2) Software. The software is by far the easiest I have ever come across. It is regularly updated and locked down so every bloke and his brother can't get a copy and mess-up all my work, then call me out and say "Its never really worked right", after they've messed it up.

3) Product range. They're getting closer and closer to having everything covered. Granted, some of their product are not competitively priced at all (looking at you Araknis, Pakedge, Luma etc.) but they're the only company where I can pretty much spec and price an entire quote on their dealer portal, save it, then just hit "Order", and it's on its way.

4) Control4 offer a complete solution; Not just the building blocks for a science project that you have to piece together yourself. I did my time mucking around with RTI, ProRemote, AMX, Philips etc., and it's all junk designed to be screwed together in as many ways as there are people installing the stuff. I want to be able to install and program a system, in the most efficient way possible, that can be serviced or repaired by anyone that I send to site, rather than have them spend the first 2 hours trying to understand what the hell is going on and how they used product "X" with product "Z", through product "Y" to make everything speak the same language. When get a new project, it's time for me to sell and install a system that works from day one, not an opportunity for me to play mad-scientist in someone's home and piece together a box of parts in the hope that they'll be impressed with my ingenuity.

5) SDDP. The last time I installed a new component and it had a built-in option for integration into RTI, Savant, Elan, URC etc., was never. This, to me, is a huge indicator that they are working the closest with manufacturers to have things already programmed and ready to run, before we even spec/purchase them.

Let me openly state that they are by no means perfect, but they seem to have hit the nail on the head more than anybody when it comes to eliminating the key elements that we struggle with in this industry. They make stuff work, and back it up pretty solidly if there's any trouble.

I feel the most confident selling a control system now, than I ever have in my near 20 years of being in the game.
Problems worthy of attack, prove their worth, by hitting back. -Piet Hein.
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