technically you did by adding



but isn't that the crux of the discussion? you started this thread because you have an issue with people asking (hopefully) more knowledgeable [people on forums.

I might disagree on a lot of stuff with many people here and other forums, but at the end of the day I would assume collectively there is a lot more knowledge then the tech support at the satellite company or the TV manufacturer.... which is some person that might have never used the equipment reading off of a screen.


you often contradict yourself, if we let that possibility deter us from replying to your current point there would not be a need for replies. :)

...and I asked for help just today with a situation I simply cannot figure out. The density of the manual isn't helping, either!

Some TS is amazing, others crap. Choose vendors that have good TS. Time is money.

Lutron is a standout. Their written tech support bulletins are outstanding, and support on weekends is pretty good.

Sometimes a good distributor will make the difference.

This should be emphasized to the client, up front. It saves the customer money.

Agreed. Some techs want to figure things out on their own out of sheer pride and challenge. As a business owner I say if you can’t figure it out in 15 minutes call the manufacturer and figure it out. Time is money.

They who?


You wrote that after you quoted Fred:

Were you referring to one of those three people/groups, or to someone else?

Being stubborn costs companies a lot of money- you nailed it with the 15 minute limit. One problem is that many companies have people working in tech support who don't have real world experience, zero imagination and are prone to denying that a problem exists. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "I have never seen/heard anything like this", I could have retired years ago. Many tech support people just don't know what they're talking about and in some cases, they neither know, nor care.

Then, there's the time pissed away waiting for someone to answer.....

Note that my original post does not mention "new Stormi kids merch".

Note that the timeframe in question where Brent and I worked together was 15 or so years ago.

Note that at the time, in one room, were folks from the manufacturing, distribution, retail, and installation sides of our industry. 18 of us, total. It was hard work, exhilarating, and at the time, it seemed like a positive step.

It's astounding how hard it is to get people to stop trying to find the solution to a problem that's not really a big thing. I have the habit of saying "this is worth about a five minute investigation. After that we're wasting time." When we get to the five minute point they're totally invested in figuring the thing out.

Now that I've read this thread, I might avoid trying to figure out things at all, though I kinda think that's an overreaction. Hmmm. Maybe I should just not state that there's any kind of time limit on it... I don't know.

Some people fixate on a problem to the extent that nothing else matters, regardless of the inconsequential nature of the problem. They don't seem to be aware of much outside of the problem- I describe them as 'Like a June bug that can't find its way out of a corner'.

About 1% of the phone calls made to vendors end with a problem solved. The other 99% of the time its me wasting hours and getting nowhere.

I have much better success posting on forums like this. I always giggle when the advice given is to call the vendor lol. Anyone remember the "we haven't heard of this before"? Phast or the infamous remote makers WSOD?

Yup. WSOD mfg was brought up- likely the biggest “Never heard of this happening” farce ever to hit our industry. They went so far downhill (along with AMX) that it amazes me they still exist. FB groups is the new TS. The agents are us, lol!