Beginners haven't caught on to many things that help us in our occasional detective work as we try to figure out what we're dealing with. The following is offered seriously because it really is possible for people not to know how to deal with some problems.

But it's always surprising when someone posts a question about a product, a question that the manufacturer surely has an answer for. (This is not at all surprising in the middle of the night or on the weekend, though!) This happens often enough that we could probably create a meme for "Well, no, it didn't occur to me to call the people who will definitely know, so, no, I didn't call the manufacturer."

Really? You and me have had VERY different experiences with knowledge the manufacture has.
And it isn't even something that is new. Going as far back as the early 90's, whenever I would call for tech support on a product, I would commonly know more about the product and situation than anyone there would.

There are of course some exceptions, some smaller manufactures that have real tech people to answer the support questions and are knowledgeable. But in my experience that is rare.

One of the reasons why it baffles me, when someone on here asks a question and the immediate response from some is "What did the manufacture say?"
Well most likely they said "Did you try unplugging it and plugging it back in?" - when I asked about supply voltage or something else. WTF?!?!?

I'm with Brad on this one Ernie.

Best example ever:

I call tech support to relay info about a problem that I hope they can answer.

The reply is "It cannot do that.", and on several other occasions I got "I never heard of this before. Are you sure that's what it's doing/", and the ever present "You have it wired wrong.".

Yes, every now and then you will get some help. but it's far too seldom.

There is deep acceptance and recommendation for removing power from modern electronic devices to reset their operation. In the world of tech support "unplugging it and plugging it back in" REALLY IS the first step. The second step is often overlooked -- that step is noticing the amount of times that removing the power works and correct operation resumes.

Some processes in modern electronic equipment can lock up and will only be guaranteed to have "let go" when DC voltages in the circuitry lower to zero or near zero. Any unit that has no power switches and/or responds to an IR command when "off," has DC voltages in it even when we think it's OFF, so you cannot bring its voltages to zero by turning it off. If such circuitry has digital electronics, you have to unplug the products to bring this stuff to zero, which is to say, to guarantee that it has been reset.

The fact that manufacturers specify keeping a product unplugged for some minimum amount of time indicates that it's possible for it not to reset even if power is totally removed.

Accept it. Unplug and replug, especially with digital electronics, is often the first step.

(This response is shortened from the original response, which got into DC voltages and history and such.)

edit: google "power down reset." Oddly, the top article I saw was power-on reset, but maybe that's just the way google has adopted a Hitchhiker's Guide approach to things by giving you almost exactly what you didn't ask for. Anyway, that's


Imagine the amount of computer magic you would have to understand and know about to go into your computer and make adjustments that would correct all of those flaws. Compare that to power down, power back up. Suddenly power down, power back up is a STRONG tool!

I figured no matter what rudimentary example I gave, Ernie was going to go sliding down a long rabbit hole about something slightly off topic.
But I had hope... for a few minutes(*).

(*) Yes I realized the reply was more than a few minutes after.

Seems am easy one for the manufacturer to answerhttp://[Link: remotecentral.com]

A call to the same manufacturer could have saved us from reading this onehttp://[Link: remotecentral.com]

From a mfgr's POV.

#1: Somebody does have to be the first to tell us of a problem.
In our case there are 4 of us doing support, so it is possible that another tech also got a call about and the rest do not yet know, but we do share our calls on a daily basis.

#2: Please give us (tech support) the symptom first, before you give the job story.
It helps to put your information into perspective.

#3: Do not wait until you are pissed to call for support (please), my rule is 15 minutes of troubleshooting and then call for help. We want to get involved while your mind is still clear.

#4: And yes we are going to ask you (usually) to do a 15 minute power reset (it does help).

#5: If it is going to take you awhile to make a requested change (ie, rerouting a cable or redoing a termination) please hang up and call back when done. It is not fun to sit at our side of the phone for 15 minutes while you do this, and we could be answering another call (or going to the bathroom).

#6: We really are here to help you get through your problem and out the door. Give us a chance to do so.

#7: AS much as we test and try to find possible failures, we are in a lab, you are in the real world and you will come across things that we have never encountered. Do not hesitate to call and share.

I concur with Brent. Being able to articulate what you have tried matters. Being able to describe what is in the signal path matters.

Yes!
At least in my case I try to white board your signal path. We will ask for every connection in the path, please do not wait 15 minutes to tells us about: Splitter, matrix, 110/66 punch connection, 1080P AVR in 4K chain, extender, or anything else (all of these have happened). We (and every other company) want you to be successful, get the job done and make money. Please help us to help you.
And yes to quote Ernie "give us all of the part numbers" there may be a product specific sku issue that we know about.

Brent,
You already know Ethereal is one of those rare companies that gives great tech support. And has knowledgeable people on staff.

Any large manufacture (Sony, LG, Samsung, HP, Dell, Pioneer, Denon, Epson, JVC, NuVo, Nest, Ring, APC, etc., etc,. etc... 100x more brands), not so much.

So I think it is important to point out that Brent and Fred are outliers, they are people who make it their business to know tech stuff, and also be incredibly available to help.

This is why it is good to throw business their way, whenever that job calls for it.

That is not the case with the majority of manufacturers or their reps. With some of the bigger manufacturers, you get somebody in a call center reading off a screen. You can tell by the questions they ask you, such as, “Are you using an HDMI cable?”

I would have to say that RTI was perhaps the best or probably worst example. When everyone out in the field was having the same problems with their product, you could call them up to ask about it, and they would say it is the first time they had heard about it. That is what infuriates people in the field, trying to make their %#*@ work.

It is sad that we are are considered an exception, but it is also not a surprise.
Most companies do not want to spend money on anything that they do not consider "Revenue Generating" and to sales oriented people a "Technical Support Department" is merely a drain on resources. I am lucky that Metra (my parent) does not see it that way.
However I also know that Chris, Patrick (JVC), Andrew Turner (Sony), Phillip Lamar Jones (D/M), Charlie Boornazian (Epson) and the guys at AVPro do care and want to help.
And there are also some Reps that care, Jack Rainy and Will Parkinson come to mind.
And Last (but still First in my mind) is Fred Harding, a sales guy with tremendous knowledge and a willingness to share it.

Thanks for the kind words. I first met Brent when we worked on developing the Comp-Tiaa certification exam way back when.. I still have the shirt, I think.

Off topic:
You know CompTIA still uses basically the same exam these days. Very outdated material that has no real world applications anymore. It is a sad joke.

But worse... they have become a big supporter of anti 'right to repair'. Paying to have lobbyist go to hearings to lie and derail any 'right to repair' legislation.

ANYONE that supports what this scummy CompTIA organization has become, needs to be publicly kicked in the nuts! They are HORRIBLE people that need to have bad things happen to them.
That is all.

Brad, Brent and I did this back in the early 2000's...