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Topic:
Fiber to gate
This thread has 31 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
OP | Post 16 made on Saturday July 25, 2020 at 17:35
SB Smarthomes
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On July 25, 2020 at 01:18, edizzle said...
fiber always over copper. period. cleerline fiber is as easy as terminating a cat5. bulletproof.

I'm not worried about terminating the fiber or the cost of termination kit. For this project I was more concerned with sourcing the correct fiber that would hold up outside and could be pulled through the small conduit and small junction boxes.
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Santa Barbara Smarthomes
OP | Post 17 made on Saturday July 25, 2020 at 17:42
SB Smarthomes
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On July 25, 2020 at 01:43, Brad Humphrey said...
I just went to the back of my truck and got a piece of the Cleerline for you. It is the single mode, 6 fiber, DB, armored cable. You can bend it into a pretty tight loop, enough to curve in a single gang box. And the pull strength on this stuff is amazing. That outer multi-core tube around the fiber, protects it extremely well.

The only problem is the cost. The tag line all these fiber companies keep giving is how fiber is almost the same cost as cat these days. But that isn't the cost of these Direct Burial Armored cables - which is what you are most likely needing fiber for.

Also, someone mentioned indoor/outdoor fiber. The 2 big brands in this category for CI installers, both have cable listed as indoor/outdoor and NEITHER is suitable for burial. Currently the only cable they make for burial (that I've seen) is the cable that is also armored.

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at the fiber and respond.  I've been through the Cleerline catalog online and saw the indoor/outdoor rated fiber but wasn't sure about it's longevity in wet conduit.

The armored stuff looked like what I need, but didn't know if it would work with the small junction boxes.  At all locations the conduit comes in and out of the bottom of a 1-gang bell box positioned vertically.

For fiber, I'd usually come into an 8x8 or 10x10 junction box which leaves room for a service loop and terminations if needed.

Here's a photo of what I have to work with.  It's the box in the foreground with the fish tape beside it.

[img][/img]
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Post 18 made on Saturday July 25, 2020 at 20:22
Brad Humphrey
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On July 25, 2020 at 17:42, SB Smarthomes said...
Here's a photo of what I have to work with.  It's the box in the foreground with the fish tape beside it.

The fiber spool I like using for burial is this part# 6ACS9125OS2PE
It will physically make that bend in the box with no problem.
I looked up the specs on the cable and it gives the attenuation for certain bends in the spec sheet.
So in that 1 gang, with a short/width (2") bend to go in & out of that box, you would be looking at a 0.03dB loss per box. So almost no loss.
Pull strength during installation can be as high as 450 lbf.

If power is an issue at the gate, then your POE might be a better option.
Here with all the lighting strikes we get, running metal conductors in the ground for signal, is a big no-no. It will eventually take a surge. We always have to protect every incoming copper service feed.
Post 19 made on Saturday July 25, 2020 at 20:48
buzz
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On July 25, 2020 at 17:33, SB Smarthomes said...
Not sure if an isolator will be necessary... I'm planning to power the DoorBird all the way from the head-end via PoE.  Only potential for ground loop would be through contact closure to the gate controller.

For that sort of distance consider lightning protection if there is a copper path back to the house.
Post 20 made on Sunday July 26, 2020 at 08:31
andrewinboulder
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On July 25, 2020 at 20:48, buzz said...
For that sort of distance consider lightning protection if there is a copper path back to the house.

Suggestions on a surge protection unit in this scenario that supports POE?
Post 21 made on Sunday July 26, 2020 at 09:08
Brad Humphrey
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On July 26, 2020 at 08:31, andrewinboulder said...
Suggestions on a surge protection unit in this scenario that supports POE?

These do very well.
[Link: diteksurgeprotection.com]
OP | Post 22 made on Sunday July 26, 2020 at 10:22
SB Smarthomes
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Thanks guys... I'll go ahead and add some surge protection, but lightening is very, very rare here.  I've only heard or seen thunder/lightening 2-3 times in the 20 years I've lived here and haven't ever experienced or heard of anyone with equipment damage from it.
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Post 23 made on Sunday July 26, 2020 at 17:09
buzz
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It only takes one strike to ruin your day. Our store is near a two story building nestled between four story homes and a number of nearby apartment towers. You'd think that it was an extremely low risk location, but it was directly struck and required months of repair. I guess that the refrigeration units on the roof presented an attractive target.
Post 24 made on Sunday July 26, 2020 at 17:45
P2P
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Not only is surge protection a 'good idea' - it is required by code!
Post 25 made on Sunday July 26, 2020 at 18:58
SWFLMike
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On July 26, 2020 at 10:22, SB Smarthomes said...
Thanks guys... I'll go ahead and add some surge protection, but lightening is very, very rare here. I've only heard or seen thunder/lightening 2-3 times in the 20 years I've lived here and haven't ever experienced or heard of anyone with equipment damage from it.

I wouldn't worry about it then. It's something we deal with every summer here, so if it doesn't happen on a regular basis for you, you're probably OK.

It might sound sort of basic, but I just use stand-alone PoE injectors for the stuff that goes outside, like gate operator/phone stations, as opposed to a PoE switch that's powering a bunch of other stuff. My thought was to let the injector take the hit - it's cheap to replace. I can't say I've had it put it to the test yet, but that's the idea (never had to replace a switch, either!)

The house I used these Veracity pieces at has taken some *radical* lightning strikes over the years. In fact, I was there just yesterday because the secondary gate wouldn't open after a lightning storm. I was able to log into the cameras and try to open the gate from off-site, but it wouldn't work, so I rolled out there and the breaker for the actual gate operator was tripped. We reset it, and it popped again after about 5 seconds. So the gate seemed to be toast, but our stuff was OK.

And I don't think surge suppression is a requirement - I think he's referring to grounding or something like that. If I'm wrong, please correct me as I'd like to know more.
Post 26 made on Monday July 27, 2020 at 08:54
ericspencer
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On July 25, 2020 at 01:43, Brad Humphrey said...

Also, someone mentioned indoor/outdoor fiber. The 2 big brands in this category for CI installers, both have cable listed as indoor/outdoor and NEITHER is suitable for burial. Currently the only cable they make for burial (that I've seen) is the cable that is also armored.

OP stated fiber was going in conduit.... Indoor/Outdoor fiber (at least those offered by major fiber mfg) is perfectly suited for this application. They meet GR-20-CORE and are fully water blocked.
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 27 made on Monday July 27, 2020 at 10:05
Brad Humphrey
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On July 27, 2020 at 08:54, ericspencer said...
OP stated fiber was going in conduit.... Indoor/Outdoor fiber (at least those offered by major fiber mfg) is perfectly suited for this application. They meet GR-20-CORE and are fully water blocked.

Having water block tape/yarn is good. Not allowing the water to ingress into the cable in the 1st place, is better. I don't trust anything without a polyethylene jacket, in the ground for long term use.
Post 28 made on Monday July 27, 2020 at 14:48
buzz
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There is a trainload of electrons in a strike and there will be induced voltages into nearby conductors. Earth is not a particularly good conductor. Notice the current distribution in the tree roots. Only the highest energy portion of the strike can light up the root structure as shown. Imagine the voltage drop required to do this. Further, imagine the voltage drop from one of your feet to the other if you were standing on a root at the time of strike. This voltage drop in earth is why one must bond ground rods together. Otherwise, a ground rod on one side of the house can be at a significantly different potential from a rod driven at the other side of the house.

If there is copper in that conduit, it is vulnerable to induced voltages. A copper run will act like a large induced voltage antenna. Also, a direct or nearby strike at the gate can result in transients blasting back to the house.



Last edited by buzz on July 27, 2020 14:56.
Post 29 made on Monday July 27, 2020 at 18:47
Ranger Home
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that second pic looks so photoshop'd lol. not saying it is. amazing pic
OP | Post 30 made on Monday July 27, 2020 at 20:17
SB Smarthomes
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Hi Buzz, thanks for the scary pictures!

I'm adding an isolator, but seriously... we don't get lightening here in Santa Barbara.

The second picture was done by an artist using light painting.  It's been around the internet for awhile and at some point got misrepresented:
[Link: snopes.com]
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Santa Barbara Smarthomes
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