Customer expanded the yard and wants to add an additional one or two more rock speakers.

Current setup:

2 runs of 4-wire speaker wire run to one side of the yard. There is no real way to get an additional wire run.

There are currently 3ea 6ohm Episode Dual Voice Coil (Stereo) Rock Speakers connected. 1 speaker wire run has 1 DVC speaker and the other has 2. 99% sure they were wired in parallel, which then 3ohm load to the amp on those two channels. Its an old Snap Episode 8 channel amp and has been fine for years.

So, I can add one more speaker in parallel to the single and then that too would be at 3ohm. Although just because it has been running fine for years not sure if ideal due to the 4ohm min rating of the amp.

If I converted the sonos source output to mono, I was thinking I could just use use a single tap (red/grn or wht/blk per Snap wiring digram for R/L) driving 6 ohms across each of the 4 individual rock speakers. But, not sure off the top of my head if I then cut the output volume in half by eliminating driving the second voice coil out of each of the seakers.

Another thought is if I kept this with same mono source output to then connect 2ea sets of the DVC speakers as follows: red from both back to the amp for + (Red is Positive for R speaker per Snaps Diagram). Blk from both back to amp for - (Blk negative for L speaker on Snap diagram) . Then on each speaker, wire the wht and grn together. I believe this would maintain a 6ohm load. But, then I assume I am dividing the output watts of the amp now across double the amount of speakers. So then wouldn't I loose half the volume level on those compared to current setup?

This is where I draw a blank. But trying to see if these is a cost effective way to add 1-2 more of these speakers.



Edited: Fixed wiring per Snaps diagram.

Curious as to what Snap says.

You won't lose half the volume, by the way.

Thanks Fred.

I am sure I totally screwed up the wiring description and my mind is so cloudy trying to figure this out. Figure this would be similar if these were Niles.

Awaiting an answer from Snap but know I asked a related DVC question last year with conflicting ohms info from Snap. They "seemed" to have cleaned up the install manuals since the single speaker also referenced the DVC models but with a different ohms rating the then DVC manual. Now both manuals and datasheets show 6 ohms for the 6.5" speakers of both models.

However, the manual also shows under basic wiring connections for the DVC on one page Red/Blk as Input1 & Grn/Wht as Input 2. But then later in the manual there is a pic showing wiring diagram of the DVC and shows L amp terminals connected to speakers Blk/wht and R amp terminals connected to Grn & Red for stereo. My guess is the latter is wrong, which also screwed up my edit to the original post above.

So let me ask this a different way.
You got the current setup above. Thus, need to add 1 or two more speakers for coverage but not affect the current volume levels:

1) If I only have:
-4 pairs of speaker wire
-Amp puts out 50 watts RMS @ 8 ohms and 70 @ 4 ohms, which then should be 60 @ 6 ohms.
-2 extra speakers would be ideal to maintain even volume level but can do 1 extra worst case. I also could do regular rock or DVC for these additional if that helps in any way.

What would be the recommended wiring?

One scheme would be to mono input to the amplifier, connect the terminals on each speaker in series, and use only one pair of the wires for each speaker. Effectively you would have up to three 12 Ohm speakers in parallel for each amplifier channel. This would reduce the output level of each speaker somewhat, but you will probably get most of that back due to the better acoustic coverage.

Using this series connection arrangement you could connect the quad wires together to make a single pair.

Likely, the wire resistance is protecting the amplifier from over current in the present configuration.

So making sure I am following this correct. Wire each DVC speaker in series (if input1 is red+\blk- and input2 is wht+\grn-). Combine the blk & wht for a 12ohm load.

You then mention to have up to 3 of these wired in parallel. If my math is correct on this then 2 of these 12ohm loads would be 6ohm to the amp. 3ea would be a 4ohm load to the amp. Utilizing one pair of speaker wire from the amp.

4ohms will get more power from the am, of I did 3 of these. But... if I need 4-5 total speakers then I would be mismatched on the output No? The other two New speakers (assuming same DVC, just all wired in parallel across 2 channels (2 pairs) would be 3ohm. 2 wired the same as above in series on each speaker and then parallel back to amp would be 6ohm. Could adjust gain down to balance I guess. Or...

If I had 5ea and kept it to two max,, in series per DVC speaker and in parallel back to amp, that should be 6ohms per pair/channel at the amp. 2 sets is 2 pairs/channels. The oddball DVC can then be wired normal as 2 channels for the remaining 2 pairs. Or... can’t I just utilize a single 6ohm speaker For the oddball or actually 2ea single 6ohm speakers, since it’s all mono for the balance. Leaving 1-2 pairs not used?

What I can’t seem to process is if the source is output to mono would a single 6ohm rock sound the same as 2ea DVC rocks wired as above in series for each DVC and in parallel for same 6ohm load back to the amp. Also, I guess related, how does the watts output by the amp come into play with the above? That is where I was thinking in my head volume level.

The output from a power amplifier channel is similar to an AC power circuit. You can keep adding speakers (lamps) until you reach the current limit of the circuit. The (lamps) speakers are not aware of each other. As you add more (lamps) speakers the voltage holds up as long as you have not exceeded the current limit. There is one obvious difference between AC power and output from the amplifier, but it is minor. The power station sends a constant voltage, say 120V. The power amplifier output voltage will vary, following the signal input. If you gave the amplifier a constant input, its output will remain constant regardless of the number of speakers -- up to the amplifier's current limit.

Those single point speakers are really two speakers sharing the same cone. In my scheme we are simply wiring the two speakers in series. Be sure to observe proper wiring polarity or a mono signal will sum to zero. [I bumped into this on a takeover installation where one speaker had very low output on a stereo feed. Bass is mostly mono and one channel was wired out of phase on one speaker resulting in almost no bass for that room.]

A power amplifier does not care if the loading in the two channels is identical or not. Each channel only cares about it's own current limit.

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If we want to don our Golden Ear audiophile hats, we could argue about how a series connection for any speaker impacts the ultimate audio quality. In my opinion this hardly matters for a rock speaker placed outside, under the bushes.

Thanks Buzz.

As far an ensuring proper wiring: "IF" on the DVC, input1 is red+\blk- and input2 is wht+\grn- then on EACH individual DVC speaker I would basically wire the black and white together. Then the Red & Green are connected to each individual rock speaker for positive and the Green's for negative and run back to the amp. If so, is my calc correct at 6ohms then for 2 and 4 ohms with rocks?

I get the analogy somewhat to an electrical circuit. Not an electrical but get that the total Amps of connected devices can't exceed that of the breaker. What was tripping me up on the speakers was I get that the output lets say is 60W and lets say the speaker says its rated at 75W/channel. What I was unsure about was if you then are hooking up twice as many, while keeping the ohm's the same if that reduced the power then per speaker to get the same level of sound. That is what was rolling around my brain.

In addition, I wasn't sure if the loudness/volume level per rock speaker if you had lets say 3 rock speakers in a row and 1 was a regular (non DVC speaker - 6ohms) vs. having the other two each wired in series and then in parallel for same 6ohms however, you have double voice coils outputting on those two speakers vs the single. Or, if you made that single rock a DVC but wired each channel independent compared to the two wired in series and parallel.

Since you have two different types of speaker, unless they have exactly the same efficiency, the acoustic output for the speakers will be different at the same drive level.

Yes, three 12 Ohm somethings in parallel will present four Ohms. The amplifier can't count bodies, series or parallel, it only knows about the composite.

Good assumption on the color code, but always "try before you buy". You can quickly test the series scheme by connecting a D-Cell as a trial. Connecting one way will yield a loud bass thump, connecting the two sections the other way will be quieter or no thump. You want the louder version.

Going to the job tomorrow to install some other items. I waited on getting in any new speaker(s) so I can try and test what is there and see the sound differences based on configuration. Will try the series/parallel 12ohm mono first.

Can't I also bridge the output, since its mono and 12ohms? Manual says 8ohm min. So maybe that is an option if not enough volume.

Also, I figure I can use a multi-meter to check at the speaker for ohm's of the series/parallel. Will that also work back at the amp end to get the total resistance shown at the amp from speaker load?

I apologize for how insultingly simple this is, but the recommended wiring would be 70 volt. I'll bet you're going to kill yourself trying to figure out how to do it another way, but even with all that killing, not going 70 volt will be cheaper. But you just know that 70 volt is the way this Hydra should be implemented.


Oh, do I hear "just like in a 70 volt setup"?

By the way, with the existing stereo wiring, is there, like, a chair or something at the single spot in the back yard where you get stereo imaging?


It's worse than that.

When I was at Marantz in 1980 I did some research on speakers in series. The deal was that competing brands (Kenwood, Sony) put speakers in series when switching on A+B, while Marantz receivers put speakers in parallel when going A+B. I wanted to document the performance difference.

I was not surprised to find that when dissimilar models were in series, their bass response was crapped up.

Say you've got a speaker with a 40 Hz bass resonance in series with a cheaper speaker with an 80 Hz resonance. That 80 Hz resonance puts a high impedance at 80 Hz in series with the better speaker, reducing its 80 Hz bass, ruining its low frequency response. The better speaker's 40 Hz resonance hardly affects the cheap speaker at all, since the cheap speaker hardly responds at 40 Hz anyway. The lesson: put two dissimilar speakers in series, the better one suffers more than the cheaper one.

But two identical speakers in series have the same frequency response as one of those speakers all by itself! This is amazing since you'd think the bass resonance of one speaker would drastically lower the bass output of the other... but I've got the charts to show that they're the same as a single speaker driven by an amp channel.

So.. when you think about putting speakers in series, remember that a resonance in a speaker is a high impedance load on the speaker that results in less power being available at that frequency to other speakers it's in series with.

Fortunately, in this series arrangement, since the 'speakers' share the same cone they will therefore be as identical as possible. Other speakers on that line will be in parallel.

I think that we all agree that running more wire would be the best acoustic solution, but is not practical in this case.

Converting to 70V is another path. Even with 70V, speaker efficiency will be in the mix, but a typical 70V transformer will allow some adjustment at each speaker.

I had originally thought of changing to a 70v system. The cost benefit is not there for him at this point. The other side of the narrow yard/pool has another 2 of the DVC speakers (another 4 pairs of wire). That side is fine and smaller seating area. So there are already 5 of these speakers on the system and the amp. Can this be converted and if so what’s needed? If so, worth it? I wanted to completely redo as a landscape system but was shot down for other av proj in the house.

4-pair or 4-conductor?

You could start your search with something similar to: [Link: parts-express.com]
and
[Link: parts-express.com]

This will keep the parts cost down, but you'll need to figure out a scheme to weatherproof the outside stuff.

Too often we are too eager to meet the unrealistic cost desire of the customer and implement a contorted, sub optimal system, just because we can. Will there be any lighting in the new area? If so, you could have the electrician run the speaker wire and keep that cost off of your budget.