This issue is new to me, but still requires people to know exactly what they are dealing with.

THERE IS NO KEYSTONE CORRECTION ON ANY SONY ES PROJECTOR.


This is unacceptable to me. There is no perfect install and tools like this are needed in some applications to fit design, decor, and aesthetics.

Sony's tech support basically said that there will be no compromise in picture quality for any type of correction of the room itself.

What does that tell you?

I would easily give up 5-10% of performance to make it fit the room, screen, and decor.

I find this to be a deal killer in the future. A $25K retail projector doesn't have something that a 1K projector has.

I do not want to hear from assholes that say you should have checked first.

Anyone purchasing a $25K projector should expect a feature that is offered on something 1/25th of its value.

We did an 885 a few weeks back and the lens shift option gave us a lot of wiggle room while keeping the geometry perfect. Have use pipe threaders and strut in the past when getting “surprised” in the field. Hope you get it sorted out!

Unfortunately in this install, there is an enclosure that the projector sits in. No way to go lower. I only need 5-6", but being off by that much, gives it the trapezoid effect.

I have found that many projectors have a vertical lenses shift that is much larger in one direction than another, by this I mean if you ceiling mount it the lens shift will be greatest towards the floor and if you place right side up on a surface the lens shift will be greatest towards the ceiling.

There have been a couple of times I have had to flip a projector upside down inside the enclosure in order to get the image down to where it was needed. Ideally you would use a projector mount on the "ceiling" of the enclosure in order to more easily keep the projector level and square with the screen wall.

This^^^^^^^^

I have 2 jobs where this is the case. Both times the projector had to be upside down to get the proper lens shift.

I’d take lens shift over keystone anyways. Wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.

Even on cheap installs, I never use keystone.

In any case, you need to make sure your enclosures, mounts, tables are plum and level. Then it’s easier to use lens shift to center the image.

Sony's response was that the engineers(main problem banking on these assholes)felt like that they could not compromise even 5-10% quality for the application of a non perfect install.

BIG MISTAKE

Sorry, I agree with Sony on this one. Digital keystone correction is pretty damaging to the image quality. I have not run into any situation where the Lens shift wasnt enough.

Especially in the last few years.  Earlier days of projection keystone was necessary.

I agree - why buy a 4K projector and handicap it with a feature that can potentially cut the resoltution down so much.
I only expect keystone on entry level theatre projectors where people 'plonk them' on the living room table / commercial installations where at the lower end it isn't about resolution much of the time.
I don't believe Sony would have given you any other answer than 'this is how it was designed, and why it was designed this way'.

Totally agree with Sony.

For those of us who remember, you used to have to pretty much center the projector in the room based on the screen size and lens. Keystone, lens shift, zoom etc... were for MINOR ADJUSTMENTS ONLY.....

Maybe take more time in the design phase and use a measuring device...

You should NEVER EVER use keystone.
I have seen several installs where a company used keystone on a home theater install. I took over the jobs because customer was complaining about picture quality. When I discovered what they had done, I had no problem throwing them under the bus. Any self respecting installer should know not to ever use keystone in a home theater. This isn't up for debate, it is a fact!
Keystone is for board rooms and portable projectors showing slide shows.

If lens shift isn't working, then you have another issue.
If it is working but not giving you enough movement, then how high above the screen are you mounting it? Or like others have said, you are not mounting it right towards the orientation (upside down if above the screen). Besides using a ceiling mount inside the hush box, if space is tight, they make slide plates for projectors to go inside hush boxes. They are made for this very reason.

[edit]: I came back, as I see the 1st part of my posting seems harsh. It's just that you have been installing for over 30 years, as far as I know. You should know these things. And for you to rant about a $25K projector 'not' having keystone, just dumbfounded me. I can only guess you just has not done very many projection installs in your time, so you never felt the need to learn about them.
[edit2]: Or maybe only experience from the CRT projection days, which keystone on those monsters was completely different. You were physically changing the scan lines and convergence when doing keystone. Which didn't impact on the picture quality like modern digital fixed resolution projectors do.

Especially with very high resolution images. Keystone will spoil the edge of the image; the sharp customer (or you) will see the number of pixels change along the corrected edge.


This totally rings true. As I was reading the paragraphs before this one, my Vidikron days came back to me, where I could adjust the keystone but there was no reduction in pixels because no pixels were involved.

If you're installing a $25K projector, you should insist on, and your client should support, an installation that places the projector exactly where it should go.

Can you flip it upside down?

The Sony has a lot of lens shift available. Just not a lot of negative shift.
He seem to indicate the projector box is mounted above the screen in height.
So either he doesn't have it mounted upside down in the projector box. Or it is WAY above the screen in height (outside of the lens shift range).
If it is the second problem, he already said the projector box can't be moved down. So not an easy fix. My next question to that problem would be... can the screen be moved up instead?