|
|
|
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:
OT. New old thread electrical ?
| |
|
Topic: | OT. New old thread electrical ? This thread has 15 replies. Displaying all posts. |
|
Post 1 made on Saturday September 14, 2019 at 18:11 |
thecapnredfish Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2008 1,397 |
|
|
Year ago garage fridge tripped garage GFCI. No other appliance from compressor to tools will trip it. Move it to another outlet which is on a different GFCI circuit and it hasn’t tripped in a year. Move forward to hurricane Dorian. Rearrange garage for storage reasons and move fridge back to original GFCI and it has worked since then. Today it trips. I plug it back into the pre Dorian outlet, on a heavy duty extension cord to test and it does not trip GFCI. I know the circuit works because I can do the test trip at the GFCI plug which happens to be in the Kitchen. Why would it trip one and not the other? Additional wire length from circuit and extension cord provide enough resistance to prevent trip?
Update, regardless of outlet used. Neither trip when test cord is used. And GFCI has been replaced.
Any ideas? Someone on here is much smarter than me on this issue.
Thank you
|
|
Post 2 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 00:52 |
buzz Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | May 2003 4,380 |
|
|
I don't have any grand advice. Likely there is something odd about the ground or neutral of the troublesome outlet. Could the fridge frame be intermittently touching another ground? Measure the resistance from each pin in the power plug to the frame. Do you know if the trip occurs at startup?
The long extension cord will lower the current draw somewhat.
It might be interesting to measure voltage between pins on the problem outlet and the same pin on another outlet while the fridge is starting. (be safe while doing this)
|
|
OP | Post 3 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 05:24 |
thecapnredfish Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2008 1,397 |
|
|
It is immediately upon plugging in. Distancing fridge from GFCI through use of test cord or plugging into a outlet fed off GFCI located elsewhere results in not tripping. Odd.
|
|
Post 4 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 10:33 |
highfigh Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | September 2004 8,322 |
|
|
On September 15, 2019 at 05:24, thecapnredfish said...
It is immediately upon plugging in. Distancing fridge from GFCI through use of test cord or plugging into a outlet fed off GFCI located elsewhere results in not tripping. Odd. Did you inspect the outlet by removing it from the J-box? Is it possible that the line is connected to the load terminals? Check the resistance between each conductor at the GFCI that trips, with the previous device in the line.
|
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder." |
|
Post 5 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 13:18 |
Neurorad Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | September 2007 3,011 |
|
|
Prob a short in the GFCI circuit, somewhere.
|
TB A+ Partner Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha |
|
OP | Post 6 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 14:48 |
thecapnredfish Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2008 1,397 |
|
|
I do know line and load are hooked up correctly. I will disco load from back of GFCI to eliminate other outlet and wires as a possible cause. Still don’t understand why adding a cord stops the problem.
|
|
Post 7 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 16:59 |
radiorhea Super Member |
Joined: Posts: | May 2002 3,264 |
|
|
Keep Fridges off of GFCI. Not meant for it.
|
Drinking upstream from the herd since 1960 |
|
Post 8 made on Sunday September 15, 2019 at 21:04 |
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2003 7,462 |
|
|
On September 15, 2019 at 16:59, radiorhea said...
Keep Fridges off of GFCI. Not meant for it. Said this before. In the garage, which is a wet area, a freezer is to have a dedicated circuit with a single outlet (meaning not a duplex) as that IS the code.
|
|
OP | Post 9 made on Monday September 16, 2019 at 06:18 |
thecapnredfish Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2008 1,397 |
|
|
That’s what I’ll do Trunk. However fridge circuits here are dedicated, but duplex outlets are used.
|
|
Post 10 made on Monday September 16, 2019 at 12:53 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
Joined: Posts: | December 2001 30,104 |
|
|
This is a well-known problem. We should all be aware of it by now. I've seen comments on this over at least the last ten years. On September 14, 2019 at 18:11, thecapnredfish said...
Additional wire length from circuit and extension cord provide enough resistance to prevent trip? I'll guess that resistive, capacitive, and inductive influences of the added cord act as a snubber, lessening EMI created when an inductive load (a motor in the refrigerator) turns off. It's a known problem. See [Link: diy.stackexchange.com]It was amusing to read there that a recommended solution is no GFCI... and why don't the refrigerator manufacturers supply the solution... but they do... they supply no GFCI. It's hard to communicate that the solution has been supplied when the solution is nothing.
|
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything. "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
|
Post 11 made on Monday September 16, 2019 at 13:19 |
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2003 7,462 |
|
|
On September 16, 2019 at 12:53, Ernie Gilman said...
This is a well-known problem. We should all be aware of it by now. I've seen comments on this over at least the last ten years. I'll guess that resistive, capacitive, and inductive influences of the added cord act as a snubber, lessening EMI created when an inductive load (a motor in the refrigerator) turns off. It's a known problem. See [Link: diy.stackexchange.com]It was amusing to read there that a recommended solution is no GFCI... and why don't the refrigerator manufacturers supply the solution... but they do... they supply no GFCI. It's hard to communicate that the solution has been supplied when the solution is nothing. Actually, the answer is in the electrical code. In doing central vacuum systems, where the cannister was mounted in the garage, I ran into this same issue many times. Didn't matter if it was a dedicated circuit, the inspector wanted to see a single outlet so the circuit couldn't be shared. On those GFCI circuits, the vacuum would usually trip it on start up, or shut down.
|
|
OP | Post 12 made on Monday September 16, 2019 at 15:45 |
thecapnredfish Senior Member |
Joined: Posts: | February 2008 1,397 |
|
|
Going mobile home style. Will put a dedicated circuit and plug right next to GFCI.
|
|
Post 13 made on Thursday September 19, 2019 at 12:19 |
SWOInstaller Select Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2010 1,596 |
|
|
With the extensive troubleshooting I just completed with a Pool pump tripping a GFCI breaker instantly it has to be something in the wiring on that specific receptacle/circuit causing the issue. The way a GFCI works is by monitoring the difference between the HOT and NEUTRAL terminals (keeping in mind the neutral is connected to ground) this is why older houses that have Knob and Tube wiring it is acceptable and code (in our area anyways) to have a GFCI breaker/receptacle supply this circuit as there are no ground wires within the circuit.
Are you positive that you have a GFCI receptacle and not an AFCI receptacle? With older appliances (and some newer cheaper appliances) they do not have efficient motors in them (mostly AC motors) causing an ARC at startup and tripping the circuit (an ARC between HOT and GROUND).
In any case a Fridge must be a dedicated circuit and does not require GFCI/AFCI protection. Depending on the area most places allow a duplex receptacle for the fridge as it is typically enclosed within a cabinet so using it as a general purpose plug is not easily achieved. If the circuit is located in an area that the plug could be used as a general purpose plug as well as the fridge then I can see an inspector requesting a single receptacle to eliminate the opportunity to plug something else into it.
|
You can't fix stupid |
|
Post 14 made on Thursday September 19, 2019 at 13:07 |
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme Loyal Member |
Joined: Posts: | November 2003 7,462 |
|
|
On September 19, 2019 at 12:19, SWOInstaller said...
. The way a GFCI works is by monitoring the difference between the HOT and NEUTRAL terminals (keeping in mind the neutral is connected to ground) this is why older houses that have Knob and Tube wiring it is acceptable and code (in our area anyways) to have a GFCI breaker/receptacle supply this circuit as there are no ground wires within the circuit. This same "Knob & Tube" holds true with older homes that have two conductor wiring. In both cases it's fine to use a GFCI, and standard three prong duplex receptacles, but all MUST be labeled with "GFCI protected, no ground." in order to pass code. In any case a Fridge must be a dedicated circuit and does not require GFCI/AFCI protection. Depending on the area most places allow a duplex receptacle for the fridge as it is typically enclosed within a cabinet so using it as a general purpose plug is not easily achieved. If the circuit is located in an area that the plug could be used as a general purpose plug as well as the fridge then I can see an inspector requesting a single receptacle to eliminate the opportunity to plug something else into it. Code will require a single outlet in a wet area (other than a fridge as you point out) , and an inspector that pays any attention WILL require it. At one time the manufacturer of M&S units had new labels printed that did not include "UL listed", and the inspectors wouldn't issue a CO.
|
|
Post 15 made on Friday September 20, 2019 at 20:31 |
BrettLee3232 Long Time Member |
Joined: Posts: | December 2009 423 |
|
|
Are you plugging into the actual gfi plug? If so put a regular plug there then move gfi to next outlet. That way it’s not on the GfI and rest of your outlets will be.
|
Knowing that Gold went up a few K makes me think "well now I have to do a better job on selling more equipment".
-Me... Jan. 2014 |
|
|
Before you can reply to a message... |
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now. |
Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.
|
|