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Speaker Patch Panels
This thread has 12 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 07:00
crosen
Senior Member
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I typically use banana keystones for speaker patch panels, but they are a bit fragile and take up a lot of space. So, I'd like to go to a Speakon type solution. I see a ton of Speakon options out there, and am looking for some guidance on manufacturers and part numbers.

The typical project might have 16 zones of stereo audio plus a 5.1 system. So, figure around 35 - 45 channels. I use mostly 14ga but sometimes 16ga cable, always with 8 Ohm electronics.

So, what I need is a recommendation on a suitable wall/rack mountable patch panel and the male ends that would go on the speaker patch cables.

Generally, are screw terminals a consideration, or do I really need to solder to do it right?

Much appreciate any guidance.

Last edited by crosen on June 22, 2019 07:12.
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 2 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 08:13
mwstorch
Long Time Member
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check out vadcon

[Link: vadcon.com]
Post 3 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 08:19
Brentm
Ethereal Home Theater
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What about These.
[Link: metrahometheater.com]

And These?
[Link: metrahometheater.com]
Brent McCall
Paid Endorser for;
Ethereal (386) 846-7264 Cell
OP | Post 4 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 08:24
crosen
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That's the sort of thing I'm looking for, but I find the density of a 4 pole connector like the Speakons appealing.
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 5 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 08:43
mwstorch
Long Time Member
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also made in a 16.75" wall plate width:

[Link: vadcon.com]
Post 6 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 12:11
Brad Humphrey
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If you wanted to stay with your keystone wiring plans, there are these from OnQ:
[Link: legrand.us]

Come in different colors (I use white for whole-house audio and black for the surround sound zones.). And you get double the connections of a standard banana keystone.
Not sure how that stacks up with 4-pole speakons in the same amount of space.
Post 7 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 15:50
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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I hate to rain on your parade, but if I did, I'd hope you had some kind of screw-down connection instead of a removable plug and jack.

The entire purpose of a jack panel is to allow fast and secure changing of connections. (secure = "doesn't fall out.") Be real: how often do you need to move a speaker connection from one amp channel to another? Having that need should be a driving issue in deciding to use jack panels.

Do the connections of any easily removable speaker wire connectors equal the low resistance of a screw-type connection, which can be tightened to the point of cold flow that creates an air-tight metal to metal connection? (By screw-type, I include binding posts.)


By the way screw-down connections HAVE to be better than banana plugs. To begin with, the great majority of banana plugs have a side entry hole, into which the wire is pushed, and then the wire is held in place with... a screw-down connection! This means the banana adds a second connection point to each channel's wiring.

Banana plugs typically have four spring-metal pieces that bow out from the center post. The peak of this bow is all that makes contact with the banana jack. That's four small connection areas, with the connection dependent on the strength of the spring metal. THAT is the kind of connection you're putting in series with the screw-down connection on the banana plug itself.

If you're concerned about having the best fidelity, the highest damping factor, the best current flow, connections held in place by a screw are the best. Unless you have crappy 70 volt speakers.

And if you have crappy 70 volt speakers, a panel seems ludicrous because who needs to change speaker connections on a 70 volt system? Which brings me back to the start: why do you want to use a tool made for quick changes that could lessen the signal quality?

The answer is that it looks cool. The client, not knowing better, thinks it's an improvement... or at least is willing to pay for it.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 8 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 16:21
crosen
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Which brings me back to the start: why do you want to use a tool made for quick changes that could lessen the signal quality?

The answer is that it looks cool. The client, not knowing better, thinks it's an improvement... or at least is willing to pay for it.

I want every structured cable to have a fixed, stable and labeled endpoint that remains unchanged. It has nothing to do with looks. It has to do with longevity, maintainability and flexibility, as well as implementing clear and self documentation demarcation points between subsystems.
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 9 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 16:55
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On June 22, 2019 at 16:21, crosen said...
I want every structured cable to have a fixed, stable and labeled endpoint that remains unchanged.

This specification is matched exactly by a continuous piece of wire that runs from the speaker terminals on the amp, into and through the structure of the house, out of the wall and into the speaker terminals of the speaker. Face it, anything else is less fixed and less stable. Jacks and plugs do not invite "unchanged."
It has nothing to do with looks.

Do you ever use connectors that for some reason are not good-loooking or techish-looking? For instance, see the illustration at the bottom.
It has to do with longevity, maintainability and flexibility, as well as implementing clear and self documentation demarcation points between subsystems.

Flexibility is the opposite of fixed and stable.

Imagine now a set of four-position or 8-position terminal strips of this sort, sized for 14 gauge wire, with the wires terminated with crimp-on spade lugs:



There's only one screw because the piece of steel that's now under the screws goes out the back of the terminal strip and through the mounting plate. Of course, this means drilling holes in precise locations...

Are your reactions to this perfectly workable solution the same as mine? That is,
They're ugly.
They're old.
We don't do it that way any more.
I'd have to make custom plates to mount these.

Those are objections of style and appearance, not of function.

I'm not saying you should use these. I'm saying we should be more aware of the things we're silently passing judgment on, and the things we're ignoring, when we make decisions like jack panels for speaker wiring.


Edit: SpeakONs were mentioned. They use either solder terminals or screw terminals to attach the wires to these connectors.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 10 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 18:28
buzz
Super Member
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4,371
I'm with Ernie, I don't like bananas for permanent connections. Those contact points are low pressure and will usually oxidize. Yes, one can use gold on gold, but the gold scrapes off after a few insertions, leaving easily oxidized base metal. Bananas should be regularly "exercised" to break through the oxide.

When using barrier strips, I crimp spade lugs on the speaker wire.
Post 11 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 19:23
davidcasemore
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On June 22, 2019 at 16:21, crosen said...
I want every structured cable to have a fixed, stable and labeled endpoint that remains unchanged. It has nothing to do with looks. It has to do with longevity, maintainability and flexibility, as well as implementing clear and self documentation demarcation points between subsystems.

I agree. And in this case the SpeakON connectors by Neutrik will be your best bet. Banana jacks are the worst (and the spacing is the same as a European 230 volt electrical outlet. But you already knew that). I once saw a tech build a metal patch panel filled with banana jacks. He did not use insulating washers on the front and back of each jack. This resulted in all speaker outputs tied together in a dead short (what's that smell?).

The Neutrik SpeakONs come in 2, 4 and 8-pole configurations which can be handy for surround runs or bi-amp/bi-wiring. You can get them built into 1- or 2-gang plates or 19" rack mount panels. If you use pre-punched empty 19" rack panels with a "D" punch (SwitchCraft "E") then you can populate with XLRs (for active subs and stereo returns), LAN ports etc. as well as SpeakONs.

This is the way I look at the difference between an equipment rack, in an equipment room, and the structural wiring of the house (structure):

The CABLING is part of the structure and is terminated at both ends. Just like the plumbing, heating, electrical etc.

The RACK is like an appliance which is delivered to the house and then plugged in - albeit with a lot more plugs and connections than a washer/dryer!
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 12 made on Sunday June 23, 2019 at 09:59
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
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17,518
10 or 15 years ago we started using patch panels for everything. We tried banana plugs & jacks for speaker cable. Absolutely horrible. Then we went with the SpeakON connectors. Those worked & looked great. (If you are going to do it...do it that way.) After a couple of years we stopped patch-paneling speaker cable for these reasons...

#1.Amps rarely get changed or moved. In business since 96 we have clients now that we did systems for and after ten years we did another system and after ten years another system. The rack gets totally stripped except the amps.

#2.Fewer failure points. Speaker directly to amp eliminates the possibility of something coming unplugged.

#3.The time+labor cost for something that offers no benefit.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 13 made on Sunday June 23, 2019 at 10:28
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
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We never do speaker patch panels - that's just busy work. Nothing beats a direct connection between speaker and amp.
I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone.


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