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Topic:
Custom Length Patch Cables
This thread has 24 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 25.
Post 16 made on Friday June 21, 2019 at 15:30
Fins
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On June 21, 2019 at 14:54, Mac Burks (39) said...
I cant figure out who their market is. The only people who would pay that much is our government.

Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.

Maybe Ford
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 17 made on Friday June 21, 2019 at 17:00
davidcasemore
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On June 21, 2019 at 14:09, jrainey said...
It is my opinion the HDMI should never be terminated at a wall plate. too much attenuation added to the cable. Cat standards are designed to be patched...HDMI are not.

This is one type of cable I can agree with what you are saying. However, I still think it can be done using an HDMI pass-thru plate - at both ends. And then using a short, and more flexible, HDMI cable from the wall plate to the display and/or source equipment. If your HDMI run can't handle this, then it's probably too long and should be replaced with Category cable or fiber.

[Link: extron.com]
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 18 made on Friday June 21, 2019 at 18:00
jrainey
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On June 21, 2019 at 17:00, davidcasemore said...
This is one type of cable I can agree with what you are saying. However, I still think it can be done using an HDMI pass-thru plate - at both ends. And then using a short, and more flexible, HDMI cable from the wall plate to the display and/or source equipment. If your HDMI run can't handle this, then it's probably too long and should be replaced with Category cable or fiber.

[Link: extron.com]

I still disagree with this solution. From a service point of view you add too many failure points to it and too much attenuation. No fiber extender or category extender can keep up with the performance of a well designed cable either active or passive at this point. They may in the future and fiber is certainly that path but not yet.
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
Post 19 made on Friday June 21, 2019 at 18:05
highfigh
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On June 20, 2019 at 18:52, davidcasemore said...
Our industry is based on standards. I hope I don't have to start listing the organizations who create these standards because this is something you should all know.

It's based on standards, but so many fly by night and low budget operations exist that many of those standards are ignored, unknown to the installers "because training costs money", "just do it the way I said" and other bad excuses for reasons. I used to help a dealer with installations and on one job, he told us to daisy-chain the network connections. Seriously. He wanted to save money on cable but his problem was in thinking as if he was the cheapskate who was paying for the work and materials.

My biggest pet peeve:

Wires and cables, of any type, just hanging down from the ceiling or poking out of the wall.

That can't be avoided in a lot of retro work, especially when the house is old and has masonry walls. Even if the wall has drywall, it's not always easy to get someone to fire up for the cost of opening it.


Every cable should terminate at both ends at some type of wall plate or rack-mounted faceplate. Since this cable is part of the structure, any rack-mounted patch panels should be wall-mounted so as to be part of the structure too.

As good as it can look, I really like to avoid making extra connections.

It's no wonder so many of you spend so much time on site for the last weeks before the client moves in (and are still there after they do move in). If you terminated all your cables ahead of time at both ends then you can almost be in and out for the final trim-out because:

1. You've built and tested your rack off-site ahead of time. You know that all of your remotes will work properly - no messing around on site. Plus you have the added benefit of not having two vans worth of empty equipment boxes to remove from the house. You built the rack off site and that's where the boxes are. I know some integrators don't have vans large enough for a full-height rack. Rental companies are your friend and are not expensive. Instead of having equipment manuals strewn all over the client's house, you've already created a couple of three-ring binders to hand to the client or the house manager at the final walk-thru/training.

2. Your trim-out consists of wall plates, keypads, TPs, speakers and displays. You bring the rack in, connect it to your terminated connection panel. Many of the trim-out pieces can be installed prior to painting which will shorten your time on site at the end. This is great "make work" for those slow days.

If you don't do these types of things then you will keep being the last trade on site. This gives you the added advantage of being blamed for the move-in delay, being blamed for damage to the floors and walls, and being the last one to get paid (hoping there is any money left). If any of these things keep happening to you then you really can't say you are a pro, can you?

Do you mainly work on commercial/industrial, or some large residential? I can only imagine the luxury of filling a rack & testing it all before it goes to the site, especially if it has to go up or down one or two flights of stairs.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 20 made on Friday June 21, 2019 at 18:56
davidcasemore
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On June 21, 2019 at 18:05, highfigh said...
Do you mainly work on commercial/industrial, or some large residential? I can only imagine the luxury of filling a rack & testing it all before it goes to the site, especially if it has to go up or down one or two flights of stairs.

I may be out of touch with a lot of you and your projects and for that I apologize. I would say that 95% of the residential projects that I've been involved with over the years (decades, actually) have had elevators. If not, there is usually a set of wide, straight service stairs - sometimes with direct access to the outdoors. The racks get built off-site, wrapped in shrink rap, and delivered to the job site. It's not much different than bringing in a refrigerator - sometimes easier if you've seen some of these commercial-grade refrigerators.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 21 made on Friday June 21, 2019 at 19:23
lippavisual
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On June 21, 2019 at 18:00, jrainey said...
I still disagree with this solution. From a service point of view you add too many failure points to it and too much attenuation. No fiber extender or category extender can keep up with the performance of a well designed cable either active or passive at this point. They may in the future and fiber is certainly that path but not yet.

I agree with what you say to a point. But, if it’s an hdmi that is used for gaming consoles or laptops to plug into, you bet my installed HDMI is going on a wall plate or f/f coupler of some sort. Most of my work is commercial and end users are relentless for breaking cables.

This way the integrity of the cable is not compromised and they can replace a short patch cord or f/f connector. Otherwise, I’d be replacing 50’- 100’+ cables weekly. Not worth my companies time to be doing that.
Post 22 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 19:31
davidcasemore
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On June 21, 2019 at 19:23, lippavisual said...
I agree with what you say to a point. But, if it’s an hdmi that is used for gaming consoles or laptops to plug into, you bet my installed HDMI is going on a wall plate or f/f coupler of some sort. Most of my work is commercial and end users are relentless for breaking cables.

This way the integrity of the cable is not compromised and they can replace a short patch cord or f/f connector. Otherwise, I’d be replacing 50’- 100’+ cables weekly. Not worth my companies time to be doing that.

This is correct. And in the residential market you might not be able to replace that 50 ft. length of HDMI cable because it's buried in the ceilings/walls.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 23 made on Saturday June 22, 2019 at 20:05
Fins
Elite Member
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On June 21, 2019 at 18:56, davidcasemore said...
I may be out of touch with a lot of you and your projects and for that I apologize. I would say that 95% of the residential projects that I've been involved with over the years (decades, actually) have had elevators. If not, there is usually a set of wide, straight service stairs - sometimes with direct access to the outdoors. The racks get built off-site, wrapped in shrink rap, and delivered to the job site. It's not much different than bringing in a refrigerator - sometimes easier if you've seen some of these commercial-grade refrigerators.

I don’t want to move appliances either. If I did, I would have gone into the appliance business. Comparing it to moving a refrigerator isn’t a comforting analogy.

That said, the shop I’m with now builds some racks in the office. With a good handtruck, it’s not the worst thing I’ve had to do.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 24 made on Sunday June 23, 2019 at 07:30
jrainey
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On June 22, 2019 at 19:31, davidcasemore said...
This is correct. And in the residential market you might not be able to replace that 50 ft. length of HDMI cable because it's buried in the ceilings/walls.

Absolutely correct for commercial. I stand my ground on residential. The connections on residential are not being messed with....if there are we have done something wrong with our design. Best signal integrity is end to end...period.
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
Post 25 made on Sunday June 23, 2019 at 09:24
highfigh
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On June 23, 2019 at 07:30, jrainey said...
Absolutely correct for commercial. I stand my ground on residential. The connections on residential are not being messed with....if there are we have done something wrong with our design. Best signal integrity is end to end...period.

Done something wrong, or are still working for the same people for over ten years. I recently replaced an AVR that I originally installed in early 2007 and for that one, I used component because, as I told him, "I don't want to use HDMI until they fix the problems or have no choice". DOH! The old one ran out of HDMI jacks and when he wanted to add some equipment, it was time so I pulled everything from the Den and re-wired it- easy enough- it all passes through a hole that I had to bore in the brick wall supporting that part of the house.

These people make changes to their house every freaking year but it's not an easy one to work on- built in 1905.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
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