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Topic:
Splicing building phone lines
This thread has 17 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Tuesday April 23, 2019 at 21:08
Krassyg
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I have to get the building phone lines spliced and moved out of the way in a high rise in NYC. Supposedly they are no longer used but I have to splice them just in case. Who carries that kind of cable? Inside there are probably 40-50 color coded wires. I can use cat6 and call it a day but would much rather find the same cable for the color coding.


Last edited by Krassyg on April 23, 2019 21:18.
Post 2 made on Tuesday April 23, 2019 at 21:31
Fins
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You need to know how many conductors. There is 25, 50, and 100 pair phone cable.
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Post 3 made on Tuesday April 23, 2019 at 23:56
P2P
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Then once you figure that out, you can get the cable at a big telco disty.  Anixter, CSC, and Graybar are three that come to mind.

And no offense - but if you haven't played with this type of cable before and / or in this type of setting, skip it and hire a pro!  Especially if these are trunk cables for the entire building.

Last edited by P2P on April 24, 2019 02:04.
Post 4 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 00:06
edizzle
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On April 23, 2019 at 23:56, P2P said...
Then once you figure that out, you can get the cable at a big telco disty.  Anixter, CSC, and Graybar are the three that come to mind.

And no offense - but if you haven't played with this type of cable before and / or in this type of setting, skip it and hire a pro!  Especially if these are trunk cables for the entire building.

yup
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Post 5 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 06:55
3PedalMINI
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On April 23, 2019 at 23:56, P2P said...
Then once you figure that out, you can get the cable at a big telco disty.  Anixter, CSC, and Graybar are three that come to mind.

And no offense - but if you haven't played with this type of cable before and / or in this type of setting, skip it and hire a pro!  Especially if these are trunk cables for the entire building.

Yup.

Aside from that I can think of 100 other things I would want todo other then splice 100 phone lines, twice! Have the BM call Verizon
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
OP | Post 6 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 07:40
Krassyg
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Thanks guys. Verizon is telling the client that the lines are no longer in use. I am just the plan B.

Out of curiosity, what are the potential issues with this? I've spliced some of intercom lines for another building before; as long as my connections are good what can go wrong(I know; I shouldn't be saying this in our field). I did it wire by wire to make sure I don't accidentally switch pairs. The biggest issue was cutting the steel conduit coming up from the floor without melting the wires . Wet rag wrapped around the pipe and notching with the grinder without cutting through; a few bangs with the hammer and I was in business. Pull each pair out of the conduit before splicing with the extension of course.
Post 7 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 08:13
lippavisual
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Do it right and use a 66 or 110 block for the splice.
Post 8 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 08:28
buzz
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I like the idea of having the building manager take charge of this. If you do the splice and something goes wrong in the future (anywhere in the building), you'll receive the first call.

Old phone wiring scares me because I never know what has been done before me or what building services might be disrupted while I work. I see "splices" done by carpenters and electricians that are twist and tape, using the cheapest possible tape that probably fell off years ago. Or they will use grossly mismatched wire nuts that happened to be in their tool bag that day.

The best plan would be to use punch blocks and provide access to the blocks after the project completes. Of course this access will cause the decorator to throw a hissy fit. Proper compression splices can work fine too, but installing them is not as fast as a punch block and the punch blocks allow easy diagnostics if there is an issue. If you use a punch block, honor the color code.

If you take the challenge, spend some time to check the layout. Likely, you'll discover a wire closet on each floor or at some more central location. Does your cable serve only the current apartment or multiple apartments?

Last edited by buzz on April 24, 2019 09:26.
Post 9 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 09:22
Fred Harding
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Have to concur; use a 66 block. Use appropriate number paired cable. Consider testing several jacks past the splice point with a toner to see if there are additional problems that you become the proud owner of.

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Post 10 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 09:23
cma
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Get the proper cable at Graybar, use a 66 or 110 block. That is the correct way to do it.
Post 11 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 11:07
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme
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I've done both, but really prefer a 110 block.

As others have stated, there are thing that can go wrong, or have already gone wrong, and YOU will be the one gets called the culprit.

Get a document signed showing you bear zero responsibility for ANY problems.
Post 12 made on Wednesday April 24, 2019 at 23:59
Ernie Gilman
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The reason to use a 66 block is that you can Y from a 66 block. You can also get 66 blocks that have amphenol connectors on them... this means that each position on the block has a wired that goes to the amphenol connector, and you run the entire 25 pair AT ONCE by slapping the amphenol in place.

For the heck of it you should expose yourself to the color code, too. Our blue/white and white/blue pair is only the first of 25 pairs of colors. I could list the colors, but then my response would be too long....
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 13 made on Friday April 26, 2019 at 18:26
davidcasemore
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On April 24, 2019 at 07:40, Krassyg said...
Thanks guys. Verizon is telling the client that the lines are no longer in use. I am just the plan B.

If the lines are no longer in use the NEC requires that they be removed from the building.

(NEC Article 800.25 Abandoned Cable)
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Post 14 made on Saturday April 27, 2019 at 15:36
Ernie Gilman
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As with most things, the NEC doesn't say who's going to pay for determining FOR DAMN SURE that those wires aren't being used. That's probably a lot more costly than actually removing the wires.

Imagine two single story buildings next door to one another, with two parallel driveways in between. In the 50s one company occupied both of these buildings. A 4" conduit ran between the buildings, filled with phone cables and other low voltage wiring. The buildings shared a 1A2 phone system (the old one with the row of lights across the bottom).

When I worked in one of those buildings in the 80s, the mess above the ceiling was unbelievable. It came to our attention when we heard a telephone toner through our PA system for the better part of a day.

The sound was leakage from testing in the building next door. Once management saw how many wires were just sitting above the ceiling -- in this building they had been leasing for twenty years -- they gently backed away and and waited for the toner to go quiet.

Who the hell was going to pay for wire removal? Nobody.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 15 made on Saturday April 27, 2019 at 15:52
Mac Burks (39)
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How about PLAN C? Junction box where the cable currently is and conduit to where they want to route it to.

PROS
1.They don't have to waste time and materials doing something that isn't necessary.
2.They now have conduit between two points in the building. This will benefit someone at some point.

CONS
1.3M doesn't get to make a huge scotchlok sale.
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