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Topic:
Best options for smooth WiFi handoffs?
This thread has 35 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Tuesday February 5, 2019 at 11:07
crosen
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1,262
We all know the issue where a WiFi client sticks to an access point with a weak signal even when an access point with a stronger signal is available?

It seems many network vendors have tried to solve this, but the landscape keeps changing.

What are the current best WiFi solutions and associated best practices for addressing this? Put otherwise, what solution do you give a residential client who just wants this handoff issue to go away?
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 2 made on Tuesday February 5, 2019 at 11:50
dsp81
Advanced Member
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Design is critical to avoid sticky clients. There are protocols for roaming, but in the end the client normally controls how it will roam. Some vendors allow you to disassociate a client below a certain RSSI threshold, but I haven’t had much success with that strategy.

I disable lower data rates and adjust power levels to maintain correct overlap between APs cells (approximately 20% overlap between cells at your lowest data rate). The lower data rates have longer effective transmission distances and can result in sticky clients. In residential I normally make 24 Mbps mandatory and disable everything below. I leave all higher data rates as supported. Then I start tuning power levels and can re-enable data rates, if necessary (I would re-enable a data rate if the coverage is poor at full power). I move in reverse, trying to maintain the highest data rate possible. If you don’t have good coverage unless using 1.5 Mbps and full power, you need to re-evaluate your design.

Also make sure you do not have overlapping adjacent channels. This more difficult on 2.4 than 5 as there are only 3 non-overlapping channels (1, 6, and 11). 5 GHz does not carry as well as 2.4 GHz through walls and will likely have different power requirements. There are products that will measure the RF environment and dynamically set channel and power levels (Cisco CleanAir, for example).

This link is for 2.4 GHz channel planning, but the principles are applicable to 5 GHz, as well.

[Link: blog.aerohive.com]
Post 3 made on Tuesday February 5, 2019 at 12:03
lippavisual
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ruckus
Post 4 made on Tuesday February 5, 2019 at 12:15
Duct Tape
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**Ruckus Zone Director
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Post 5 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 09:28
highfigh
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8,311
Don't use an Apple hand-held device. They suck when it comes to roaming and hand-offs and will hang onto a network that has become useless WRT signal strength and throughput, even if a stronger one with the same SSID is closer. This isn't restricted to hand-helds, either- I have seen it with iMacs, several times.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 6 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 11:57
emerlin
Long Time Member
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128
On February 5, 2019 at 11:50, dsp81 said...
Design is critical to avoid sticky clients. There are protocols for roaming, but in the end the client normally controls how it will roam. Some vendors allow you to disassociate a client below a certain RSSI threshold, but I haven’t had much success with that strategy.

I disable lower data rates and adjust power levels to maintain correct overlap between APs cells (approximately 20% overlap between cells at your lowest data rate). The lower data rates have longer effective transmission distances and can result in sticky clients. In residential I normally make 24 Mbps mandatory and disable everything below. I leave all higher data rates as supported. Then I start tuning power levels and can re-enable data rates, if necessary (I would re-enable a data rate if the coverage is poor at full power). I move in reverse, trying to maintain the highest data rate possible. If you don’t have good coverage unless using 1.5 Mbps and full power, you need to re-evaluate your design.

Also make sure you do not have overlapping adjacent channels. This more difficult on 2.4 than 5 as there are only 3 non-overlapping channels (1, 6, and 11). 5 GHz does not carry as well as 2.4 GHz through walls and will likely have different power requirements. There are products that will measure the RF environment and dynamically set channel and power levels (Cisco CleanAir, for example).

This link is for 2.4 GHz channel planning, but the principles are applicable to 5 GHz, as well.

[Link: blog.aerohive.com]

This is exactly correct - the decision is made by the client device and it depends on far more than simply RSSI or SNR. Disabling low data rates is a good step in the right direction and may solve your problem. I settle in on 12 go 18 most of the time, but it really depends. Force clients to 5 if you can, turn down radio power, shut off 1/2 of the 2.4 radios, etc, be very careful with your channel reuse plan, use small cell sizes, etc... Some of that is more SMB than residential. Vendors have sone control and secret sauce, but are prisoners to the same standard. I recommend starting with the fundamental stuff first. Rarely do I have more than 3 APs broadcasting 2.4 in a residential home... depending on size and construction materials of course.

I am not sure what your use case is, but for anything except VoWiFi, what apps are you having issues with? And if you are trying to do 802.11r voice then.... you need secondary coverage based on the headset requirements. it is really hit or miss if most phones even support it. It gets deep fast unless you have the infrastructure and design tools for it. On that note - I would stay away form SCA....

dsp81 gives good advice. In short, disable a few of the lower data rates if you can. Turn the 2.4 power down. Encourage 5Ghz. Use only 1,6, and 11 in 2.4 - with 20MHz wide channels.

Hope this helps.
Post 7 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 13:04
osiris
Long Time Member
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442
I have no issue with handoffs with Ruckus, both Zone Director and Unleashed systems.
Post 8 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 13:40
imt
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466
Curious if everyone is using 80mhz or 40mhz wide channels with 5Ghz in multiple AP environments.
Post 9 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 13:44
Greg C
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Ruckus with Controller.
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Post 10 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 14:05
dsp81
Advanced Member
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782
On February 6, 2019 at 13:40, imt said...
Curious if everyone is using 80mhz or 40mhz wide channels with 5Ghz in multiple AP environments.

As always, it depends. I normally use 40 MHz but it depends on environmental density. In a commercial environment or residential with nearby houses, channel overlap becomes an issue with the larger channels. 80 MHz is 6 non-overlapping channels versus 12 for 40 MHz. Propagation distances are much shorter at 5 GHz, but you can get co- or adjacent channel interference from nearby cells. Here’s a couple links that talk more about channel planning for 5 GHz.

[Link: revolutionwifi.net]
[Link: revolutionwifi.net]
[Link: gtacknowledge.extremenetworks.com]
Post 11 made on Wednesday February 6, 2019 at 14:55
SammPX
Long Time Member
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May 2005
471
I'm a Unifi shop and nearly 100% of my clients use Apple products, can't remember the last time I saw someone with an Android phone. No complaints from any of my users/sites about roaming. My rules for deployments

1) When you layout your APs you will likely need more than what you think. 5ghz doesn't go as far, and as dsp suggests, you may need to turn off the 2.4 radio on some APs for the sake of getting the 5 to cover the entire house.
2)I'm bringing an AP to my initial project meetings to get everyone to understand these things need to be seen to be effective. I'll still go for the top of closets or cabinets if I can but hallways/passageways between rooms is often the best placement.
3) Using analyzer software like Wispy to tune my installations. Use this to set channel spacing and power levels. Speaking of power levels, unless it's just a single AP I find that the APs work best at 1/2 to 3/4 power levels which means I need more in my deployments. See #1 above

One last thought, the OP didn't mention his/her preferred wifi hardware vendor but I'll say having all your APs in one pane of glass is really helpful when tuning the site. Unifi, Ruckus, OpenMesh, Meraki and others
Post 12 made on Tuesday February 12, 2019 at 17:36
andrewinboulder
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1,518
On February 6, 2019 at 13:44, Greg C said...
Ruckus with Controller.

Whats a basic system like this with 4 AP's going to run the end user roughly?
Post 13 made on Wednesday February 13, 2019 at 09:04
Duct Tape
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around 3K I believe. depending on which AP you go with.
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Post 14 made on Wednesday February 13, 2019 at 09:40
iform
Advanced Member
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760
Do you need the zone director?
Post 15 made on Wednesday February 13, 2019 at 11:33
tomciara
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On February 13, 2019 at 09:04, Duct Tape said...
around 3K I believe. depending on which AP you go with.

Anyone can afford that.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
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