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Topic:
Understanding Voltage Drop
This thread has 39 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 40.
Post 31 made on Friday January 25, 2019 at 10:56
highfigh
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On January 24, 2019 at 21:21, buzz said...
Turns out that we would be much better off if we had eight or sixteen appendages. Our number systems would be much better aligned with modern technology.

I always thought that I came through a rather backward school system, but for some seemingly unfathomable reason in 6th grade we were forced to learn the 16's times table. We wanted to smack the teacher. I'm not sure that anyone in the school system knew why this might be an advantage. Later, when I was in intern in a mainframe programming shop, Hex notation hit and the old timers were struggling, I was instantly at home.

IMO, the reason we have fractional measurement is due to the fact that early humans couldn't read or write, but they could divide a small distance in half, visually. Then, they could cut it in half again and again. Pretty soon (relatively), someone was able to mark a piece of some stable material with those dimensions, write numbers and expand the system.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 32 made on Friday January 25, 2019 at 12:19
Ernie Gilman
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On January 25, 2019 at 10:56, highfigh said...
IMO, the reason we have fractional measurement

You're gonna love this rabbit hole:

The inch is the smallest of the named units. The smaller dozenmal units (line and point) have fallen out of use, the point is now used for similar sized units of 1/72 (printer's) and 1/100 (rainfall). Gry, the smallest of the older divisions of the inch, and one of the words ending in those letters, is 1/120 inch. A twipp, as used by computers,is 1/20 printers point, or 1/1440 inch.*

I'm twipping out wight now!


*from [Link: quora.com], where there's a lot of information but the one issue, WHY, is not mentioned at all.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 33 made on Friday January 25, 2019 at 16:48
davidcasemore
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On January 25, 2019 at 10:56, highfigh said...
... but they could divide a small distance in half, visually. Then, they could cut it in half again and again. Pretty soon (relatively), someone was able to mark a piece of some stable material with those dimensions, write numbers and expand the system.

I wonder how long it took to dawn on them that if you keep dividing things in half it is never-ending.

You shoot an arrow at a tree. At some point it is half-way there. You can keep dividing the distance to the target by one-half forever. The arrow will never arrive at the tree. Wait, What??
Post 34 made on Saturday January 26, 2019 at 11:19
highfigh
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On January 25, 2019 at 16:48, davidcasemore said...
You shoot an arrow at a tree. At some point it is half-way there. You can keep dividing the distance to the target by one-half forever. The arrow will never arrive at the tree. Wait, What??

One of my high school Math teachers explained the theory that, if the boys stood along one wall and the girls were along the other and they were instructed to move half of the distance to the other group, they would never meet but they would be close enough for all practical purposes.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 35 made on Saturday January 26, 2019 at 11:22
highfigh
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On January 25, 2019 at 16:48, davidcasemore said...
I wonder how long it took to dawn on them that if you keep dividing things in half it is never-ending.

You shoot an arrow at a tree. At some point it is half-way there. You can keep dividing the distance to the target by one-half forever. The arrow will never arrive at the tree. Wait, What??

I think it was Og The Great who said, while trying to mark something to cut it at an exceptionally fine line, "Eff it!".

I don't know when they decided it was "close enough for Jazz", but if you look at some antique furniture, they definitely varied in their approach. Some clearly didn't use precision for anything that would be unseen and some were more meticulous.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 36 made on Sunday January 27, 2019 at 02:31
Ernie Gilman
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On January 26, 2019 at 11:22, highfigh said...
I think it was Og The Great who said, while trying to mark something to cut it at an exceptionally fine line, "Eff it!".

Anderseits gesehen:
I had a tech who was unreasonable. When he went to label a parts box, he'd start off with a marker putting 1" letters across the end of the box. When he ran out of space, that was it. He stopped. He could not for the life of him invent an understandable abbrevi

See what I mean? If he had room for 7 letters, that's what it got. No abbreviations. No smaller letters.

One day I handed him a random piece of 2x4 that I was using for something and told him to cut another one that size. He got out a tape measure, measured it to the 32nd, then measured out the same distance on another 2x4, make a mark with pencil and square, and cut along the line. He was surprised when I suggested putting one piece of wood on top of the other and drawing a line with the thus improvised exactly right length measuring device.

He also stumbled off a the third step of a ladder once. Oddly, the neon tube he grabbed at on the way down didn't help him at all.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 37 made on Sunday January 27, 2019 at 10:25
highfigh
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On January 27, 2019 at 02:31, Ernie Gilman said...
One day I handed him a random piece of 2x4 that I was using for something and told him to cut another one that size. He got out a tape measure, measured it to the 32nd, then measured out the same distance on another 2x4, make a mark with pencil and square, and cut along the line. He was surprised when I suggested putting one piece of wood on top of the other and drawing a line with the thus improvised exactly right length measuring device.

Where did he cut the next piece? On the right, left or middle of the line? Was the pencil sharp, or dull?

If he only uses that one piece as the standard, he has a limited deviation from that size but if he starts using the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc pieces, the difference between the first and last could be 1/4".

That's the reason stop blocks and guides exist- nobody needs to draw, cut to a line, think.....

The crew who built my house were probably very similar to that 'unreasonable' tech. Flat, straight, plumb and level seem to have been foreign concepts to them.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 38 made on Monday January 28, 2019 at 02:35
Ernie Gilman
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Indeed.

Another thing just came to mind: We were building an A/V store and I watched one of the cabinet guys (who also did framing; that should have been a big red flag!) was marking off shelf mounting heights.

He was using some kind of marker to note the shelf marking heights. The marker was twice as wide as the height tolerance. I got him a pencil.


We developed some car speaker boxes, about four feet wide by five feet high, with horizontal rails. To make them versatile, I had them install some steel rails with PEM nuts in them, installed in positions defined to within 0.005".

The first one didn't work too well. They said, quite correctly, that they couldn't put the rail supports exactly where I defined them to be. No problem! I went out there the next day with my new purchases: a three foot rule and a six foot rule, marked to 64ths of an inch on one side and hundredths of an inch on the other. That was about 200 bucks of ruler. They made them perfectly after that. Once they knew how serious I was, they stepped up. Those speaker displays were SO easy to use!



(By the way, I dropped a PM to tca the other day to ask him if he needed to know anything about voltage drop. That seems to be the one thing we're not talking about here. What a great forum!)
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 39 made on Monday January 28, 2019 at 10:30
highfigh
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On January 28, 2019 at 02:35, Ernie Gilman said...
Another thing just came to mind: We were building an A/V store and I watched one of the cabinet guys (who also did framing; that should have been a big red flag!) was marking off shelf mounting heights.

Ever listen to framers when they had one guy cutting and someone else nailing? The guy who's nailing will call out length in a few ways- might be "Eighty", "eighty strong" or "eighty short (or weak)". The total variation can be 1/4" but, since it's framing, it's close enough because they have shims. Doesn't mean the freaking wall is gonna be straight, though.

He was using some kind of marker to note the shelf marking heights. The marker was twice as wide as the height tolerance. I got him a pencil.

Unless the plan is to remove the whole line and it's the same width as the blade's thickness, yeah- a pencil is better and if possible, some kind of gauged pencil, like the ones used in drafting (not the super-thin ones, obviously). The 1mm Fine Line markers are OK, though- it's not the thick ones that can be mashed into a small mop.

We developed some car speaker boxes, about four feet wide by five feet high, with horizontal rails. To make them versatile, I had them install some steel rails with PEM nuts in them, installed in positions defined to within 0.005".

The first one didn't work too well. They said, quite correctly, that they couldn't put the rail supports exactly where I defined them to be. No problem! I went out there the next day with my new purchases: a three foot rule and a six foot rule, marked to 64ths of an inch on one side and hundredths of an inch on the other. That was about 200 bucks of ruler. They made them perfectly after that. Once they knew how serious I was, they stepped up. Those speaker displays were SO easy to use!

.005" is a bit fine for working with wood unless it was MDF. Any wood will move more than that unless the climate is controlled very closely but I understand wanting accuracy.


The carpenter on the job who yapped about how I should feed my cable saw the bow in the wall behind the desk when we placed the glass top on it and said "Wow!" as if he had never seen it before. I found that odd since he had installed the desk, mounted the top without scribing it and filled the gap with caulk.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 40 made on Monday January 28, 2019 at 12:25
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On January 28, 2019 at 10:30, highfigh said...
.005" is a bit fine for working with wood unless it was MDF. Any wood will move more than that unless the climate is controlled very closely but I understand wanting accuracy.

The shelves were made in a way similar to airplane wings: hollow with thin skins (like the carpenter) and steel reinforcements at the front and back to minimize bowing of the shelf. These puppies held up four A/V receivers across their width with no visible bowing. Their thickness was pretty damn consistent!

The point was not to ask a person to do things to five thousandths accuracy. It was to show him an item (or, in this case, about 60 items) that had been built to that accuracy, and give him the $200 worth of yardstick so he could do better than he had before. It worked perfectly.

I just remembered that one of the rules was six feet long. That might have cost $200 all by itself, and that was 1987.

The carpenter on the job who yapped about how I should feed my cable saw the bow in the wall behind the desk when we placed the glass top on it and said "Wow!" as if he had never seen it before. I found that odd since he had installed the desk, mounted the top without scribing it and filled the gap with caulk.

The boss of the guys I was working with insisted that he could build a straight wall using 2x4s. Our designer asked for steel studs. The guy put in wood and had to rip it out and put in steel studs.

Why? Because we were creating "lifestyle areas" (and severly pissing off Bose) that were systems three steps down from the main floor, and as you approached the stairs you could see right straight along the wall. The wood wall was horrible. The steel stud wall was perfect.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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