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Topic:
WIFI with no wires in the house
This thread has 36 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 37.
Post 31 made on Friday January 11, 2019 at 11:24
kwkshift
Long Time Member
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February 2004
489
On January 11, 2019 at 11:00, buzz said...
Yea, “can you swap ends on an HDMI cable for me?”. (Source and sink are backwards.) It’s hard to hide one’s glee.

Agreed. Or the "hey, can you splice on a new HDMI end on a cable?"

Obviously another trade installed that cabling and somewhere along the line it got damaged. The house in now finished and all closed up. :D I love it!
Post 32 made on Friday January 11, 2019 at 14:32
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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December 2001
28,848
On January 10, 2019 at 06:53, thecapnredfish said...
CCS is just fine for cable service

Copper-Clad Steel is just fine O N L Y for cable service. Solid copper is good for all uses except long aerial drops with a shallow catenary. Since solid copper is good for all uses that we have, that's what we should always be installing.

On January 10, 2019 at 11:30, oprahthehutt. said...
Doesnt google have a mesh networking solution? If your not going to retro, stick with what they have and like.

Isn't google stuff free? And when they make changes... then you get your money's worth! No prior notice, no choices, perhaps they'll even stop offering it.
I would also give them an outrageous quote to retro wire in and let them decline. Then when they get sick and tired of the google mesh and bitch at you for it, respond with your original quote and the builders name and phone #.

"Outrageous" should mean accurate and with no holding back for contingencies. The price will be outrageous when it's an accurate price!

On January 11, 2019 at 10:08, Brad Humphrey said...
they are a bunch of f^n idiots!

This would be read "f to the nth power idiots!" I love that!

On January 11, 2019 at 10:22, highfigh said...
I also explain that the WiFi speed from an ISP isn't guaranteed,

Well, good. How is it even possible for the ISP to be responsible for the speed of wifi in the home? Sure, the ISP supplies a router with wifi, but it's up to the client to accept that or to get a better one. You might mention that ISPs also only can guarantee a MINIMUM speed of even wired internet! (And because the marketing dudes always want to cite the biggest number they can cite, it's like pulling teeth to get the ISP to name the fastest guaranteed speed. They'll usually stick HARD with "speed up to _______, which is meaningless.)

I installed another in a large two story condo and the first speed test with my iPhone 6 showed 350 Mbps, with WiFi. Wired, it shows 480Mbps, even though they're paying for 400 Mbps.

Here's where the ISP's dastardly approach makes it hard to pin things down. Are they paying for "up to 400 Mbps," or "at least 400 Mbps"?

I'm done arguing with people about whether WiFi can handle everything- it can't, unless some really expensive equipment is used.

You're not willing to say it can handle everything at slower speeds? It does make sense to say that handling something at slower speeds is not handling things!

On January 11, 2019 at 10:49, Knowinnothin said...
Mesh networking with dedicated backhaul radio can work, the key is to make sure the backhaul capacity is as good as the demand on the “ap”. Choosing a mesh kit without dedicated backhaul is pointless given the demand that the homeowner is going to put on the system.

I've just looked up "backhaul" because I've never heard the term, and I've seen one explanation. Could you give us a short explanation of it? My probably erroneous understanding at this point is that to get the fastest wifi system, you need a wired connection back to the router from each access point. This, even on a mesh network, where not requiring ethernet is one of the advantages of it.

...keep your wireless backhaul hops to one.

Please explain?

Thank you.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 33 made on Friday January 11, 2019 at 14:54
tobe
Super Member
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4,583
I've just looked up "backhaul" because I've never heard the term, and I've seen one explanation. Could you give us a short explanation of it? My probably erroneous understanding at this point is that to get the fastest wifi system, you need a wired connection back to the router from each access point.

Try this: [Link: windowscentral.com]
Post 34 made on Friday January 11, 2019 at 17:41
Don Heany
Advanced Member
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September 2008
883
I've just looked up "backhaul" because I've never heard the term

Ah-ha!! I now wish I had read this thread prior to commenting on Craigs.
Post 35 made on Saturday January 12, 2019 at 09:57
highfigh
Loyal Member
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On January 11, 2019 at 14:32, Ernie Gilman said...
Well, good. How is it even possible for the ISP to be responsible for the speed of wifi in the home? Sure, the ISP supplies a router with wifi, but it's up to the client to accept that or to get a better one. You might mention that ISPs also only can guarantee a MINIMUM speed of even wired internet! (And because the marketing dudes always want to cite the biggest number they can cite, it's like pulling teeth to get the ISP to name the fastest guaranteed speed. They'll usually stick HARD with "speed up to _______, which is meaningless.)

Here's where the ISP's dastardly approach makes it hard to pin things down. Are they paying for "up to 400 Mbps," or "at least 400 Mbps"?

You're not willing to say it can handle everything at slower speeds? It does make sense to say that handling something at slower speeds is not handling things!

Ask a random group of people what they expect from WiFi and you're going to hear that they believe it will work for everything and everything means every thing. Ask people who are more versed in technology and you'll hear a different answer. It's sold as the golden bullet for peoples' connectivity issues- when was the last time you heard an ISP say that some wired connections are needed in order to achieve the highest speed? NEVER gonna happen. Big numbers = more and more is better, right? They never say "At least 400 Mbps". "Speed up to...." is not meaningless- it goes from zero to the stated number and I was surprised to see that the EERO is showing 480 Mbps since the customer is paying for 400. Usually, it falls short.

I try to manage their expectations bu explaining that they don't actually use or need such high seeds, but that the content will eventually require this because it will reduce congestion in the ISP's infrastructure for now- not everyone is watching TV over the internet, so their demands will be less than someone whose house has a bunch of kids who are streaming and gaming while the parents watch Netflix, or something like it. The problems result when the ISP can't provide the speed, or throttles the service. In this case, more IS better.

I was contacted by the people with the EERO when the speed was very slow- I tested and found it to be around 2Mbps, so I rebooted the network & computers, but it didn't change so I called Spectrum. The tech support guy said that maybe, the computers weren't up to the task. I had already told him they worked fine for days before I called and he just grumbled something about "Oh, I didn't mean.....". Putz.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 36 made on Saturday January 12, 2019 at 10:21
highfigh
Loyal Member
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September 2004
6,946
Has anyone used one of the ASUS routers with 8 antlers?

[Link: bhphotovideo.com]

This is the model that's at the house I mentioned before, where the husband replaced everything. I left a message that I was available to look at the system and he called yesterday- I asked again if he selected TKIP or AES and he said "I think it was the first one", so, I guess he's an expert.

So much of an expert that he took it upon himself to go to the structured wiring enclosure and unplug every cable from the network switch and the cable that connects the router (in the 2nd floor office) to the switch. The Ubiquity AP was in the bedroom and, while it worked OK, the cable was run under some rugs on the floor because he had somehow concluded that "a mouse had chewed the cable in the wall". Couldn't bother to test at the jack, but that wouldn't have mattered anyway, because that's not where the problem existed.

This router has dual WAN ports and he had inserted the cable going TO the switch into the one that was left after connecting to the modem. I connected my computer to this port and had no connection but did when I tried another port. I moved the cable to the same port, connected it to the port on the wall plate that goes to the switch and found that not only did it restore the speed at all of the wall plate jacks, I found that the AP in the master BR wasn't even necessary. The speed tests were all higher than 30Mbps down, although the upload speed varied a bit- still adequate for what they'll be doing and it's very close to the speed they're supposed to see when I tested using a wired or wireless connection.

The house is large and built with materials that make RF coverage a difficult proposition but with the Engenius AP in the Sun Room on the 1st floor, it covers EVERYWHERE, including the pool house. I was actually impressed. OTOH, B&H sells this router for $350, so....

I love billable time.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 37 made on Saturday January 12, 2019 at 15:30
Knowinnothin
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
84
On 1547235147, Ernie Gilman said...
I've just looked up "backhaul" because I've never heard the term, and I've seen one explanation. Could you give us a short explanation of it? My probably erroneous understanding at this point is that to get the fastest wifi system, you need a wired connection back to the router from each access point. This, even on a mesh network, where not requiring ethernet is one of the advantages of it.

Please explain?

Thank you.

Sorry Ernie, poor choice of words.

What i'm trying to explain is that for a mesh network to work decently it has to have a radio dedicated for communication between the individual units. This way its not using the same resources it has for the devices connecting to it.

ie: Cellular, wisp and wifi all work on similar principles, a cell tower for instance has either (3) 120 degree sectors on it or (4) 90 degree sectors on it that cover 360 degrees for roughly 20km (12.5miles). it is either connected back to the network via fiber or via a separate wireless link.

In my experience with wifi and wisp anything over 1 wireless hop and performance suffered. What i mean by this is assuming your mesh kit has dedicated radios for communication between the radio's you still DON'T want the one radio hardwired to be at the beginning or the end of the chain. Having it in the middle enables both wireless connected units to talk directly to the unit that is hardwired. If you have the hardwired at the beginning or the end of the chain then one unit is doing a wireless hop to the next before it hits the hardwired unit and you are creating bottleneck.

Ive got a plex server at home and i have zero problems watching 4KUHD disc rips on tv's via wifi using roku or firetv 4K sticks. Most of you are using alot more expensive wireless gear then me so their should be no issues.
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