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Can't imagine where this computer setting is....
This thread has 21 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 22.
OP | Post 16 made on Saturday January 26, 2019 at 14:24
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Anthony,
I think it's pretty intuitive that we should not burden the average user with commands they're not going to use. DVD Players had an AUDIO button that I put on remotes for a while before I realized nobody used it. And it's pretty intuitive that we'd better not give them commands that they can easily use to screw up the system, for instance Zone 2 volume, which should be set by the installer and that's that.

Why? One customer's daughter came to visit him and she refused to use the programmable remote. She picked up the Denon receiver remote and used it. That remote had three main keypad settings, AMP, TUNER, and REMOTE (Zone 2).

One day after picking a radio station, she switched the remote to Zone 2 by accident instead of AMP, and turned the Zone 2 volume up all the way before realizing he sound wasn't getting any louder on the main zone, which she was listening to. She then switched to AMP, adjusted the volume, and went on with her life.

That evening I got a call from the client -- the Denon had switched off in the middle of a TV show. Nothing seemed to have caused it.

When I was on the service call a day later I found the Zone 2 volume turned up all the way. Apparently Zone 2 was on Tuner; Zone 2 volume was up all the way; and some thump or other had been loud enough to shut down the amp, even though the tuner could not be heard. (Did I mention there were two pairs of Zone 2 speakers and the individual VCs for them were turned down all the way?).

It was a simple matter of turning Zone 2 volume down to where I had set it before, and telling Daughter Dearest to use the damn programmable remote.

If I had put Zone 2 volume on the programmable remote, it would have been my fault that it got adjusted. The daughter used a remote that she was not qualified to use, so it was her fault.

This happened one other time with a client, where I drove out to do a service call, before I figured out this was serviceable over the phone. I just had to recognize the problem before I drove out there.

Yes, remotes should be intuitive.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 17 made on Saturday January 26, 2019 at 19:39
highfigh
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On January 26, 2019 at 14:24, Ernie Gilman said...
That evening I got a call from the client -- the Denon had switched off in the middle of a TV show. Nothing seemed to have caused it.

When I was on the service call a day later I found the Zone 2 volume turned up all the way. Apparently Zone 2 was on Tuner; Zone 2 volume was up all the way; and some thump or other had been loud enough to shut down the amp, even though the tuner could not be heard. (Did I mention there were two pairs of Zone 2 speakers and the individual VCs for them were turned down all the way?).

If I had put Zone 2 volume on the programmable remote, it would have been my fault that it got adjusted. The daughter used a remote that she was not qualified to use, so it was her fault.

This happened one other time with a client, where I drove out to do a service call, before I figured out this was serviceable over the phone. I just had to recognize the problem before I drove out there.

Yes, remotes should be intuitive.

I had someone text me that he wasn't getting anything from Zone 2 and the universal remote can only be used to make a few changes to the settings. Unfortunately, the Menu button can't be disabled. I figured that he either used that or accidentally activated the Zone 2 control on the Denon remote before selecting a source. I may have to hide the OEM remotes- he's too damn impulsive and he thinks he knows what's happening with this stuff.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 18 made on Sunday January 27, 2019 at 02:26
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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The first Denon remote I ever saw (Streisand's living room) had two slide switches on the front of it. I think they each had three positions. What a piece of crap idea that was! My dislike of Denon matured into hatred on the spot.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 19 made on Sunday January 27, 2019 at 10:37
highfigh
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On January 27, 2019 at 02:26, Ernie Gilman said...
The first Denon remote I ever saw (Streisand's living room) had two slide switches on the front of it. I think they each had three positions. What a piece of crap idea that was! My dislike of Denon matured into hatred on the spot.

So, the little door on the back didn't bother you?

Wait- you didn't sell a universal remote? Why not?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 20 made on Sunday January 27, 2019 at 13:46
Mac Burks (39)
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On January 27, 2019 at 10:37, highfigh said...
So, the little door on the back didn't bother you?

Wait- you didn't sell a universal remote? Why not?

It was the 70's man...it was a different time...

Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 21 made on Sunday January 27, 2019 at 15:32
Anthony
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On January 26, 2019 at 14:24, Ernie Gilman said...
Anthony,
I think it's pretty intuitive that we should not burden the average user with commands they're not going to use. And it's pretty intuitive that we'd better not give them commands that they can easily use to screw up the system ...

Yes, remotes should be intuitive.

I assume we all know how to program remotes that work for our customers. My post was not meant to do that. I used a remotes GUI as a way to make a point. BUt it looks like it did not hit its mark.

Let me try a different way.

When I was a kid, before we had a VCR, life was simple turn on TV, change volume, flip through the 7 channels to get to the one you want. It is easy in that scenario of having "a GUI (operating system or otherwise) should be intuitive. That is, it shouldn't need instructions." a small interface with just 5 buttons would have done the trick if the real-estate was there you could have direct access to each channel with 12 buttons or less.

But the more complex the system we talk about the more complex the GUI becomes.

So let's assume today all we want to do is watch TV,

1) clicking ch+/_ would be a nightmare with the hundreds of channels that exist so a 5 button gui won't work like in the example above


2) 0,...,9 (and possibly enter) is simple on the GUI side but it requires the customer knowing the channel numbers and if they don't know that 4 digit number (used with fibe in my house) someone needs to tell them what it is. So it fails his criteria of not needing instructions


3) an other option, which I have at home and do with my customers, is pre-programmed network logos (click on ABC to go to ABC) but then you can't cover all of the channels and you can only fit so many logos per page. So to make it simpler I usually divide it by individuals in the home and even then it sometimes needs more then one page of logos.

So if a guest tries to watch channel XYZ things become a bit more complicated, who do they look under, what page, maybe they look through all of them and no one watches the channel so it is not there and then they need to find the channel number so they can dial it in.


My point was simply if there is nothing to do then "any GUI (operating system or otherwise) should be intuitive. That is, it shouldn't need instructions. " can easily be true and you can fault someone for a bad GUI but the more people demand of something the more it becomes impossible to do what he said because you need to balance the needs. This thread did not start off with you asking the best way to set up remotes, like I said the remote was used as an example hoping to make my point clearer, but about PCs and they need to do everything for everyone, so I think it is obvious that not all things will be intuitive and not need instructions.
...
OP | Post 22 made on Monday January 28, 2019 at 02:27
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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30,104
Excellent post. Also, the more people use the remote, the easier it is for them to use it. One of those GREAT Volkswagen ads from the 70s showed the stick shift and the picture had the label "After a while it becomes automatic." True, true.


On January 27, 2019 at 10:37, highfigh said...
So, the little door on the back didn't bother you?

I totally forgot about that. Blecccch.
Wait- you didn't sell a universal remote? Why not?

Are you actually asking me to describe more stuff in my posts? Careful what you ask for!

I only had the Denon remote in my hand because the Marantz RC5200 that someone else had programmed needed some changes.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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