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Topic:
Tell me what’s wrong with the nest doorbell
This thread has 86 replies. Displaying posts 61 through 75.
OP | Post 61 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 19:19
Fins
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I don’t think the nest looks better. On paper, just from the front, sure, it looks better. But surface mounted on a house, no it doesn’t look better than a metal plate that flush mounts.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 62 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 19:33
davidcasemore
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On December 8, 2018 at 17:47, Hasbeen said...
This is the first anyone has brought up Siedle.  i've never even heard of them.  We were talking Doorbird, Elan, Ring, Nest, and although nobody brought it up, I'd assume C4's doorbell unit?

See Post #13.

I brought up Siedle, C4 and Panasonic. All in Post #13. I think your mind has been made up since the start.

And HoloVision. I brought them up as well in Post #13. I'm sure you'll think HoloVision can't be helped by "all of the lipstick in the World" either.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 63 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 19:50
Hasbeen
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On December 8, 2018 at 19:33, davidcasemore said...
See Post #13.

I brought up Siedle, C4 and Panasonic. All in Post #13. I think your mind has been made up since the start.

And HoloVision. I brought them up as well in Post #13. I'm sure you'll think HoloVision can't be helped by "all of the lipstick in the World" either.

I'm sorry I didn't read every post the great David Casemore types up?  My mind is made up because I've seen them and they're ugly. I don't know what to tell you.

You can keep telling me I'm taking home the pretty chick, but I know a hog when I see one.
Post 64 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 19:53
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
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Replaced one of these this week... miss those good old days of high tech.

I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone.
Post 65 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 19:55
davidcasemore
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On December 8, 2018 at 19:50, Hasbeen said...

You can keep telling me I'm taking home the pretty chick, but I know a hog when I see one.

Maybe, but the Ring has Chlamydia
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 66 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 20:05
Hasbeen
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On December 8, 2018 at 19:55, davidcasemore said...
Maybe, but the Ring has Chlamydia

Never said I liked the Ring either. I used the Ring Elite? for my mom awhile back and was pleasantly surprised, but other than that I think they're pieces of garbage that don't last more than a year.

But that doesn't change the fact that the custom integration industry has decided that taking a piece of stainless steel, drilling some holes into it and mounting a  camera to the back is really sweet wizz bang bullshit and likewise should cost $1000 for 720p.  For a doorbell with a camera.
Post 67 made on Saturday December 8, 2018 at 22:08
davidcasemore
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On December 8, 2018 at 20:05, Hasbeen said...
But that doesn't change the fact that the custom integration industry has decided that taking a piece of stainless steel, drilling some holes into it and mounting a  camera to the back is really sweet wizz bang bullshit and likewise should cost $1000 for 720p.  For a doorbell with a camera.

Okay - Got it.

Why don't you sketch something up that would:

- Look nice at the front entrance of a high-end home.

- Have a high-resolution HD camera that you cannot see.

- Is tamper-resistant.

- Has all of the bells and whistles that CIs need.

I understand you don't read all of my posts in this same thread, but I did mention the Channel Vision products. The camera is completely hidden and they come in several finishes.

[Link: channelvision.com]

I'm not sure how you can design something with a speaker and microphone that doesn't have some holes or slots of some sort for the sound to travel through.

The only option that I can see that would check all of your boxes would be:

1. A simple doorbell button

2. Hidden speakers, microphone and tiny CCTV camera mounted away from the doorbell button.

3. A central processor that all of these items would connect to and give you all of the features you would ever need.

This option exists right now. It's just not made by one manufacturer. Which means it's not a DYI project by any means.

I can understand not liking anything that's out there for the pro market. But I just don't know how anyone could possibly think that the Nest or Ring products look any better or are of a higher quality. Maybe you're not the one saying the Ring and Nest are okay looking. But it almost seems that you're asking for a regular little doorbell button that somehow has an invisible microphone, speaker and camera in it.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 68 made on Sunday December 9, 2018 at 07:56
gerard143
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On December 8, 2018 at 17:47, Hasbeen said...
This is the first anyone has brought up Siedle.  i've never even heard of them.  We were talking Doorbird, Elan, Ring, Nest, and although nobody brought it up, I'd assume C4's doorbell unit?

But I'll bite.

I suppose they have a place outside at a gate somewhere, I still think this looks like it belongs in the movie SAW, and you're being watched from the lair of a serial killer, more than it says... welcome guests.

They look like they should be used in the landing of a high rise apartment to get "buzzed up" with all the tenants names on it under a plastic tab illegibly written on a piece of paper.

I'm not saying that they're not high quality. They may be, I've never installed one. I've heard guys complain about Doorbird quality though..

All I'm saying is that they're UAF and the reason people are opting for the less expensive versions (Ring, Nest) is because they're less expensive and look better.  Who wants a massive foot long doorbell outside their house? Not me.

So, the customer starts to have misgivings about the size and look of the damn thing and starts googling...Then you have the situation we have here.

These do not look good. They just don't.

You can put all the lipstick you want on a pig.  It's still a pig.


Ageee with every word it this. Well said.
Post 69 made on Sunday December 9, 2018 at 09:32
Hasbeen
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On December 8, 2018 at 22:08, davidcasemore said...
Okay - Got it.

Why don't you sketch something up that would:

- Look nice at the front entrance of a high-end home.

- Have a high-resolution HD camera that you cannot see.

- Is tamper-resistant.

- Has all of the bells and whistles that CIs need.

I'm not a product designer..but if designers asked me, this is what I'd say.

1.  It must fit vertically on one piece of siding.
2.  Camera lens needs to be unobtrusive.  At the most the size of the camera lens on a smartphone, even better the size of the front facing camera on a smartphone.

3.  Must come with a variety of different trim pieces that will match most home styles. Brushed Nickel, Stainless, black....blah blah blah.

4.  At the most it should be no more than the thickness of 2 smartphones.

5.  Smartphones don't have speaker holes on the front, so the doorbell doesn't need it either.  They could be on the bottom, sides, top.

6.  The doorbell could have a screen that's customizable when the doorbell is in a sleep state.  For Example...."welcome to the smith home" or "You're at 123 Main St."   Or another image that the homeowner might want to upload...For example a nice Christmas tree.

7. When you walk up to the front door, the camera recognizes movement, and the doorbell wakes.  Now you can see the push button for the Doorbell.

8. Now, after someone pushes the doorbell all of the screens in the home.  TV's, computer monitors, phones, etc. should receive a notification.  Maybe the visitor even has the ability to contact a specific person in the home rather than disturb everyone.

9. At the front door, the doorbell could be answered from an assistant, maybe Alexa (although I'm not a fan of Alexa).  So, when you're at the front door you'd hear something like ..."contacting the smiths".  or something friendlier than that, eliminating the moment when the visitor isn't certain the doorbell rang.

10. It should also have a small light at the bottom or top of it that can illuminate the doorbell at night, but also serve the purpose of illuminating the visitors face at night.  Just in case there aren't porch lights, if there are porch lights they should turn on when someone gets to the porch.

11. Maybe facial recognition, thumb print, or Alexa can unlock the door through the doorbell when the homeowner arrives with a handful of groceries and the doors are locked.

Now we've created a custom experience for our visitors that's welcoming and also provides security at the front door in an unobtrusive way.
Post 70 made on Sunday December 9, 2018 at 13:33
Brad Humphrey
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On December 9, 2018 at 09:32, Hasbeen said...
2.  Camera lens needs to be unobtrusive.  At the most the size of the camera lens on a smartphone, even better the size of the front facing camera on a smartphone.

???
You must not have ever done CCTV systems 'professionally' when you were installing. Or gotten into photography professionally or as a hobby.

Picture quality is a function of the imaging sensor, lens, and processing.
Imaging sensor: The smaller the sensor gets, the worse low light and overall detail gets. They have steadily been making larger sensors to put into smartphones but there is serious limitations to work with. It is the primary reason why smart phone cameras suck and always will (compared to a dedicated camera).
Lens: Glass matters. Not only the material it is made from, the coatings used, and the layers but also the size in relation to the aperture and F stops. Again, small lens suck and degrade picture quality.
Processing: The DSP has become very important today in getting the most out of a less than ideal camera setup. It is the primary reason for the advancements we do have in smart phone camera quality. But more advanced (and power hungry) DSPs require space and heat sinks. And cost money. You are not going to get a Pixel3 grade camera 'system' at a budget cost. And like mentioned, it still is going to look like crap in the dark with such a small lens and sensor.

So in conclusion; your design criteria for the camera in a doorbell, is unrealistic and defies the laws of physics. You WILL have to make compromises on 'your' personal aesthetic choice, if you want even a 1/2 arse quality image from your doorbell.
Post 71 made on Sunday December 9, 2018 at 22:37
Hasbeen
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On December 9, 2018 at 13:33, Brad Humphrey said...
???
You must not have ever done CCTV systems 'professionally' when you were installing. Or gotten into photography professionally or as a hobby.

Picture quality is a function of the imaging sensor, lens, and processing.
Imaging sensor: The smaller the sensor gets, the worse low light and overall detail gets. They have steadily been making larger sensors to put into smartphones but there is serious limitations to work with. It is the primary reason why smart phone cameras suck and always will (compared to a dedicated camera).
Lens: Glass matters. Not only the material it is made from, the coatings used, and the layers but also the size in relation to the aperture and F stops. Again, small lens suck and degrade picture quality.
Processing: The DSP has become very important today in getting the most out of a less than ideal camera setup. It is the primary reason for the advancements we do have in smart phone camera quality. But more advanced (and power hungry) DSPs require space and heat sinks. And cost money. You are not going to get a Pixel3 grade camera 'system' at a budget cost. And like mentioned, it still is going to look like crap in the dark with such a small lens and sensor.

So in conclusion; your design criteria for the camera in a doorbell, is unrealistic and defies the laws of physics. You WILL have to make compromises on 'your' personal aesthetic choice, if you want even a 1/2 arse quality image from your doorbell.

I have no idea about photography. Don't care.  All I'm saying is that the doorbells that you guys are installing are ugly..They're ugly as fock, they look like shit, and that's why people don't want that piece of shit on the outside of their house.  Because as I've mentioned before...they're  u..g...l...y.

I'm not siding with Ring or Nest or any other manufacturer....what I'm saying is whoever is designing products for the CI industry need to get their collective heads out of their asses, hire some good designers and get to work.  Because the guys they've got doing it now should be fired.
OP | Post 72 made on Sunday December 9, 2018 at 23:02
Fins
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And how would you make them look better?
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 73 made on Sunday December 9, 2018 at 23:38
Hasbeen
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On December 9, 2018 at 23:02, Fins said...
And how would you make them look better?

C'mon dude. I went on an entire rant..You didn't even read it..Breaks my heart.

In a nutshell, it's not my job to make them look better, I'm not a designer... But I have eyeballs.  I know what looks good and what doesn't.  When Yugo started building shitty cars, it wasn't my job to fly to Yugoslavia and redesign the car. It was my job to not buy it.
Post 74 made on Monday December 10, 2018 at 03:13
davidcasemore
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On December 9, 2018 at 22:37, Hasbeen said...
I have no idea about photography. Don't care.  All I'm saying is that the doorbells that you guys are installing are ugly..They're ugly as fock, they look like shit, and that's why people don't want that piece of shit on the outside of their house.  Because as I've mentioned before...they're  u..g...l...y.

I'm not siding with Ring or Nest or any other manufacturer....what I'm saying is whoever is designing products for the CI industry need to get their collective heads out of their asses, hire some good designers and get to work.  Because the guys they've got doing it now should be fired.

Okay, we get that you don't like any of the dozens and dozens and dozens of models by several leading manufacturers (have you looked at them all or did you just make up your mind at the first image that popped up and ignored the other series in the product line?). You say they are ugly. But ugly for you isn't necessarily ugly for someone else. Or lots of someone elses. I doubt that Siedle has any plans on firing the designers of their very successful products which are sold world-wide. You want them fired because YOU don't like them? You're not the Minister of Taste for planet Earth.

Send your eleven point Wish List to several manufacturers and ask them if they can build something for you that passes your "Ugly" test. Be sure to let them know that they can be assured that they will sell thousands of units because they will be so beautiful. They will thank you because obviously all of their existing ugly stock is gathering dust in their warehouses due to lack of sales.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 75 made on Monday December 10, 2018 at 03:19
davidcasemore
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On December 9, 2018 at 23:38, Hasbeen said...
In a nutshell, it's not my job to make them look better, I'm not a designer...

No, you're not a designer. What you are is a serial complainer. Several of us have made suggestions and offered names of many companies who make these products. You are convinced that NONE of them could possibly be nice looking even though several are specified by architects all of the time.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
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