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Topic:
Why do we need control systems?
This thread has 51 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 10:31
sirroundsound
Senior Member
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For many years people in this undustry have tried to come up with a repeatable "system" . Get in, get out, get paid.
When you combine the various new products that are out there, we are getting very close to this.
Just because something can be DIY, does not mean everyone out there can or will.
We have lots of clients that come to us because they do not wish to DIY, they are willing to pay us to install whatever new gadget they want.
I still see a lot of money to be made out there as our client base continues to grow.
Post 17 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 11:35
oprahthehutt.
Active Member
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To keep everything together and provide a technology partner going forward. The big 3 as mentioned are all building their own sandboxes.

Customers will buy this product from A, that from G, and then will eventually want the next level of A to trigger something from G or vise versa.

The path forward is not just Audio guy. Its Everything Partner guy. Mr Client your network is shit, your TV setup has so many wires draping over the mantle Bald Eagles are nesting in it, your music setup is at least 4 different things you have purchased over 3 years, your light switches are a disaster, your surveillance cameras look like your TV setup etc etc.

On top of all of that when something goes wrong who are you going to call? Google? Good luck.

So why do we provide a control system? To make your life better by allowing us to control it.
Post 18 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 12:30
Impaqt
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Personally, I think we are seeing the effects of automation trickle down.

Market penetration for full home automation systems has traditionally been incredibly low. less than 5% of homes have what we would consider "Home Automation"

What I believe we're seeing a new category emerge in DIY Automation Millenimation maybe? they live on their phones and flipping back and forth between half a dozen apps or so is how they operate.

I firmly believe that this is largely "In addition to" the market that still appreciates real home automation. We will also see a trickle up effect as well. That being as these people age and have more disposable income, they will be able to appreciate combining things down to one app.

In the mean time, I think both markets can coexist just fine.
Post 19 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 14:51
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
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Nowadays when I see DIY or IoT it makes me think of that old term ID10T.
I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone.
Post 20 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 14:54
Don Heany
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On November 26, 2018 at 09:09, 1234tech said...
[Link: facebook.com]¨if_id=1543160859511681¨if_t=group_comment_follow

Didnít bring up the thread, shoot!
Post 21 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 18:02
Mac Burks (39)
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I quoted both your responses in this single reply because they are related.

On November 26, 2018 at 09:08, 1234tech said...
Good points. I have been installing gear since the early 90s and well vested in what we do. But just recognizing the industry is changing. It is my opinion there will always be a job for the pro but the number of jobs that require the type of control we install isn't near the number of jobs that diy and iot devices will serve. As our customers experience these diy and iot devices there will be more pressure on the value we add.

I am just saying that for a small home or condo with a dozen or so light switches, a tstat, a doorbell and a camera or two and some Sonos along with a Smart TV and soundbar, Google and Alexa can serve this pretty well.

I agree that for most small homes or condos etc that Crestron or Control4 isn't necessary...Assuming every user is tech savvy and okay with updating logging into multiple IOT device apps. With Crestron you can use your system for 15 years and never have to update an app or login unless you use an iPad. I cant even imaging dealing with a dozen apps and logins every other week when an update gets pushed.

Playing devils advocate how many of those small homes and condos need a nest thermostat? Or Sonos?

On November 26, 2018 at 09:18, 1234tech said...
Agreed, but devil's advocate how many 20k homes are there?

How many "small condos" need lighting control?

In my experience fewer homes even need an AVR - and even fewer have/know what Atmos is or are willing to pay for it.

Any home that "needs" current surround sound offerings needs at least an AVR. Any home that wants to hide surround speakers in-wall or in-ceiling needs an AVR.

Obviously if your client doesn't care about atmos and is fine with seeing sonos speakers hanging on the wall or sitting on tables and a big sound bar under the TV then they dont need an AVR.

It is the AVR and video distribution systems that complicates the job. As an audiophile and surround sound fan I get it. But more and more users are OK w/o surround sound and don't need a video distribution system.

I guess i dont see how an AVR complicated the job. If anything it helps avoid the need for video distribution because you have your sources local.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 22 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 18:07
Mac Burks (39)
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On November 26, 2018 at 12:30, Impaqt said...
Personally, I think we are seeing the effects of automation trickle down.

Market penetration for full home automation systems has traditionally been incredibly low. less than 5% of homes have what we would consider "Home Automation"

What I believe we're seeing a new category emerge in DIY Automation Millenimation maybe? they live on their phones and flipping back and forth between half a dozen apps or so is how they operate.

I firmly believe that this is largely "In addition to" the market that still appreciates real home automation. We will also see a trickle up effect as well. That being as these people age and have more disposable income, they will be able to appreciate combining things down to one app.

In the mean time, I think both markets can coexist just fine.

This is exactly what is happening...and what has been happening since the Pronto TS1000 and X10 hit the street.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
OP | Post 23 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 18:56
1234tech
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On November 26, 2018 at 10:07, Rob Grabon said...
Privacy.

Agreed, more affluent users are concerned!
OP | Post 24 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 18:59
1234tech
Long Time Member
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140
On November 26, 2018 at 14:54, Don Heany said...
Didnít bring up the thread, shoot!

in Control4 Programmers Group posted Nov 25. Sorry, not seeing a way to link to a thread in FB....
OP | Post 25 made on Monday November 26, 2018 at 19:01
1234tech
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On November 26, 2018 at 18:02, Mac Burks (39) said...

I agree that for most small homes or condos etc that Crestron or Control4 isn't necessary...Assuming every user is tech savvy and okay with updating logging into multiple IOT device apps. With Crestron you can use your system for 15 years and never have to update an app or login unless you use an iPad. I cant even imaging dealing with a dozen apps and logins every other week when an update gets pushed.

Fins noted this as well. I can't even keep track of all of my usernames and passwords!
Post 26 made on Wednesday November 28, 2018 at 00:39
rpssat
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Well we donít not for a condo, small home or a apt. But when you have a large house or a mansion then there is no real other way.
Post 27 made on Wednesday November 28, 2018 at 06:39
Don Heany
Senior Member
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On November 26, 2018 at 18:59, 1234tech said...
in Control4 Programmers Group posted Nov 25. Sorry, not seeing a way to link to a thread in FB....

Ah, I see- Control4 Programmers & Control4 Programmers Group are two different pages... Doh!
Post 28 made on Thursday November 29, 2018 at 01:53
Richie Rich
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IMO, the days of big, involved home automation systems in all but ultra high end residential are drawing to a close.

Many people are happy with a big box store tv, Sonos soundbar, Appletv (or other streaming box), and small directv or cable box stuck behind the display.
Sat box remote handles 90% of their needs, grab the ATV remote (or app) for when you want to use that.

That same job years ago was a plasma, 5.1 speaker system, AVR, Cable/sat box, DVD player, CD Changer or hdd based music player, programmable remote, gateway, pull out rack, power management, quality cabling and a fan system. Maybe throw in an XM tuner if they wanted a bit more audio diversity. I did probably hundreds of this setup in tract houses, condos etc.

We are left with a bunch of products we make little to no margin on coupled with 100% network dependence, odd intermittent HDMI issues, logins and firmware.

Yes, there is still work to be done as most clients won't want to tackle the 2018 version of a living room system but we are left with very little meat on the bone and a lot more annoying phone calls.
I am a trained professional..... Do not attempt this stunt at home.
Post 29 made on Thursday November 29, 2018 at 08:59
andrewinboulder
Senior Member
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On November 29, 2018 at 01:53, Richie Rich said...
IMO, the days of big, involved home automation systems in all but ultra high end residential are drawing to a close.

Many people are happy with a big box store tv, Sonos soundbar, Appletv (or other streaming box), and small directv or cable box stuck behind the display.
Sat box remote handles 90% of their needs, grab the ATV remote (or app) for when you want to use that.

That same job years ago was a plasma, 5.1 speaker system, AVR, Cable/sat box, DVD player, CD Changer or hdd based music player, programmable remote, gateway, pull out rack, power management, quality cabling and a fan system. Maybe throw in an XM tuner if they wanted a bit more audio diversity. I did probably hundreds of this setup in tract houses, condos etc.

We are left with a bunch of products we make little to no margin on coupled with 100% network dependence, odd intermittent HDMI issues, logins and firmware.

Yes, there is still work to be done as most clients won't want to tackle the 2018 version of a living room system but we are left with very little meat on the bone and a lot more annoying phone calls.

Ha ha so true.
Post 30 made on Thursday November 29, 2018 at 09:33
Fins
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11,598
I think you have it backwards. Most people have had no idea our industry exists. With DIY ďautomationĒ products people are finally learning this tech is real and not sci-fi. But as time goes on the current level of nonsmart smart home products will not be good enough. People will want their devices to really integrate. The question will be if google and apple can make that happen.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

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