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Add Juke Box to Audio System Help
This thread has 20 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 13:49
SWOInstaller
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Have a customer with a NSM CD Silver Sky Juke Box that they want to add to their distributed audio system (house is being built as we speak so any wiring required is possible).

I have never been requested to do this before so am trying to wrap my brain around how to achieve this.

I did some internet digging and found a manual (which I believe is for this unit) and the link to it is here [Link: nsmjukeboxmanuals.yolasite.com]

The home owner sent me pictures of the Juke Box and it appears that there are speaker level outputs on the back of it, however when reading the manual it states that the speakers that are to be connected to these terminals can't be any less than 3 Ohms which is an issue since I am using 8 Ohm speakers.

On page 66 of the PDF (605 of actual document) it lists a TB Socket and informs that this socket provides the ability to connect the unit to an external amplifier using a Stereo Diode Cable. What is a Stereo Diode Cable and where can I find one? How would I know that this cables pinout meets the requirements?

Alternatively on page 93 of the PDF there is a diagram that shows Red and black from the decoder board going into the Changer Adapter on connections C1-C4. Would I be able to connect onto either side of this to (hopefully on the Decoder board as it looks like those may be RCA connections to send my line level audio back to my head end?
You can't fix stupid
Post 2 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 14:41
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Before I start, we REALLY need to know what you want to do with this! Are you going to try to use the built-in amps to feed multiple speakers directly? Are you just looking for a line output to feed to a system you're building? The lack of specificity in your questions would make responses HUGE.

I posted here a few minutes ago, then looked at the manual. Most of my comments are new.

Five minutes later: all writing cancelled. I just erased a dozen paragraphs.

P 139 seems to show what you need.

I'll be glad to consult on other details of this beast if you like. I installed a similar unit, a Wurlitzer 50-LP changer... in 1988 or so. I have some idea of the audio approaches here. Squirrely. But look at page 139.

Last edited by Ernie Gilman on November 2, 2018 15:23.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 3 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 14:44
Fred Harding
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I'd ask the manufacturer. Probably not the first time this has been tried.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 4 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 14:47
Mac Burks (39)
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l would try google. Im sure that there is a forum somewhere for the jukebox. My guess is that this is one of the top searches there.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 5 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 15:04
Ernie Gilman
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This looks like a real rare thing. In all of the internet, there is ONE mention of the diode cable, being "what is it?" It looks like it's mentioned four other times, but those other mentions are from the same forum, naming the previous and next subjecs on the forum.

I'm drastically editing what I wrote after looking at the manual. Give me ten minutes and then check Post #2.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 6 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 15:48
Impaqt
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NSM still exists.. you could just give them a call....

[Link: nsmmusic.com]

"The home owner sent me pictures of the Juke Box and it appears that there are speaker level outputs on the back of it, however when reading the manual it states that the speakers that are to be connected to these terminals can't be any less than 3 Ohms which is an issue since I am using 8 Ohm speakers."

Just to state the obvious.... 8 ohms is more than 3 ohms..... so why would that be an issue?
OP | Post 7 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 15:58
SWOInstaller
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On November 2, 2018 at 14:41, Ernie Gilman said...
Before I start, we REALLY need to know what you want to do with this! Are you going to try to use the built-in amps to feed multiple speakers directly? Are you just looking for a line output to feed to a system you're building? The lack of specificity in your questions would make responses HUGE.

I posted here a few minutes ago, then looked at the manual. Most of my comments are new.

Five minutes later: all writing cancelled. I just erased a dozen paragraphs.

P 139 seems to show what you need.

I'll be glad to consult on other details of this beast if you like. I installed a similar unit, a Wurlitzer 50-LP changer... in 1988 or so. I have some idea of the audio approaches here. Squirrely. But look at page 139.

Sorry Ernie,

The home owner wouldn't mind the juke box only connecting to one pair of speakers (which will also be used in the DA system), however I am thinking that once this is completed and working the question from the home owner will be can we add this to the rest of the house speakers.

To answer your question I would like the ability to add this to the DA system using Analog audio to allow for all zones the ability to access the unit as a source.
You can't fix stupid
Post 8 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 16:17
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Apologies not needed.

You're right. If you connect it only to speakers, he'll soon be embarrassed to find that he wants it everywhere. Then he'll kick himself for placing it in the ping pong room, 72 feet from the distributed audio system!

So be prepared!

If I'm seeing it right, all you need is a stereo audio cable to connect this to your house system. Of course, that doesn't mean that the volume will be at a good level. That's further research to do before installing the thing. I'd set up an appointment with him, to be done on a time and materials basis, checking what cables will work, if the output levels are good, possible hum (which might be helped by turning up the volume or adding a car stereo ground eliminator transformer), whether changing the volume on a pair of speakers run directly off the unit's amplifier also changes the line level volume.... all the stuff you need to know to just slap it in place.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 9 made on Friday November 2, 2018 at 21:59
buzz
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I have no idea what a “Diode Cable” might be. Likely, it is a language translation problem and “dual cable” would be more appropriate. (“Two” — get it?) I once came across a “Blake Lever” associated with the “Stop” button in a cassette deck service manual.

My approach would be to install a Jensen isolation transformer connected to a jukebox line level output. Even better, balance the feed. This will prevent ground loops and handle the extend distance to the main system.

Using a speaker level output will result in passing the jukebox’s power amplifier noise on to the main system.

Last edited by buzz on November 2, 2018 22:07.
Post 10 made on Saturday November 3, 2018 at 00:52
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On November 2, 2018 at 21:59, buzz said...
I have no idea what a “Diode Cable” might be. Likely, it is a language translation problem and “dual cable” would be more appropriate. (“Two” — get it?) I once came across a “Blake Lever” associated with the “Stop” button in a cassette deck service manual.

buzz is on the case! How friggin' obvious. I was noting all the German and the German terms cracked me up a bit, but it never occurred to me that "diode cable" might be a poor translation!
My approach would be to install a Jensen isolation transformer connected to a jukebox line level output. Even better, balance the feed. This will prevent ground loops and handle the extend distance to the main system.

My approach would be to save the price of the transformer after checking for AC and DC voltages between the different connections, and between the jukebox's chassis and the distribution system ground. Yes, a Jensen transformer will allow nice things, but don't spend the money if you find it's not necessary.
Using a speaker level output will result in passing the jukebox’s power amplifier noise on to the main system.

Completely true.

One of the things I deleted from earlier is that those terminals, C1 through C4, are terminals 1 through 4, and the thing you think is a C is a graphic at the end of the wire intended to show some kind of connector. Look at the other connections. They all have the C-like thing, with a backwards C-like thing on the right sides.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 11 made on Saturday November 3, 2018 at 12:45
highfigh
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On November 2, 2018 at 13:49, SWOInstaller said...
Have a customer with a NSM CD Silver Sky Juke Box that they want to add to their distributed audio system (house is being built as we speak so any wiring required is possible).

I have never been requested to do this before so am trying to wrap my brain around how to achieve this.

I did some internet digging and found a manual (which I believe is for this unit) and the link to it is here [Link: nsmjukeboxmanuals.yolasite.com]

The home owner sent me pictures of the Juke Box and it appears that there are speaker level outputs on the back of it, however when reading the manual it states that the speakers that are to be connected to these terminals can't be any less than 3 Ohms which is an issue since I am using 8 Ohm speakers.

On page 66 of the PDF (605 of actual document) it lists a TB Socket and informs that this socket provides the ability to connect the unit to an external amplifier using a Stereo Diode Cable. What is a Stereo Diode Cable and where can I find one? How would I know that this cables pinout meets the requirements?

Alternatively on page 93 of the PDF there is a diagram that shows Red and black from the decoder board going into the Changer Adapter on connections C1-C4. Would I be able to connect onto either side of this to (hopefully on the Decoder board as it looks like those may be RCA connections to send my line level audio back to my head end?

I'm going to bet that the 'diode cable with a 5 pin plug' mentioned on pg 605 (bottom of page) uses a DIN plug, which is still easy to find and it was used by many manufacturers, even several in Japan like JVC, Sony, Pioneer, etc.

The link is loaded with parts for this- find out what the jukebox uses and configure the cables accordingly.

[Link: parts-express.com]

Using a transformer is a good idea if the signal needs to go a long distance- Jensen is a great source, as is Edcor. Belden 8451 or 9451 are good choices for the cable.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 12 made on Saturday November 3, 2018 at 15:49
Rob Grabon
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If you Google "DIN Diode Jack" - you'll find jacks and cables so referenced, specifically one being a German site. (and Germany is where the nomenclature for DIN was established)

Since there are multiple 5 pin DIN pin arrangements of the same diameter, "Diode" was probably understood to mean the 180 degree pin arrangement, or used to ID how the pin's were connected to the RCA jacks.

Last edited by Rob Grabon on November 3, 2018 16:01.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 13 made on Saturday November 3, 2018 at 16:01
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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buzz,
Rob worked it out!
The "diode" part is not a mistranslation. I looked at a site where this is featured, and put up the German version -- they simply use the word "diode" for this, and it happens that they didn't come up with some clunky German word for diode... they just used diode.

I say that because German is known to allow and live with word invention. The first such word I ran across was "ticket window where you buy a ticket to go a long distance on a train," even though not all of those exact word parts were used in the German word.
The word is Fernverkehrfahrkartenschalter.
If they had done THAT with "diode," it probably would have come out like "two-wire-unidirectionally-conducting-semiconductor-device." That's how they make up words in German.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 14 made on Saturday November 3, 2018 at 17:50
kwkshift
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Couldn't you just connect the speaker terminal outputs to a High-Low level convertor and then wire that to your DA system?
Post 15 made on Sunday November 4, 2018 at 11:10
highfigh
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On November 3, 2018 at 17:50, kwkshift said...
Couldn't you just connect the speaker terminal outputs to a High-Low level convertor and then wire that to your DA system?

Probably, but it has line out, so why do that? The line out, while it could be useful, might not have the output level needed for more modern amplifiers, though- the manual states that amplifiers with 200 mV sensitivity be used.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
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