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Topic:
When Lightning destroys wiring...
This thread has 81 replies. Displaying posts 76 through 82.
OP | Post 76 made on Wednesday September 5, 2018 at 23:14
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Well, thanks, except you still don't see that energy has no time component. Energy expended over time is power, and power has a time component.



edit: fixed typo from when I wrote this on my phone

Last edited by Ernie Gilman on September 6, 2018 01:39.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 77 made on Thursday September 6, 2018 at 05:01
buzz
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Ultimately, the power company needs to bill us for the amount of coal that they burn plus a little extra for wear-n-tear and to service the capital required to build out the generation and delivery infrastructure. Toasting a single slice of bread does not require much coal.

Similar to our slipperty use of terms when referring to Modem/Router/Access Point/Gateway, typically calling the box a “router”, we slur the difference between VI “power” and KWH “power”.

With respect to a lightning strike, VI is high, but KWH is low. You can think of this as dropping a large brick on an outhouse vs subjecting the outhouse to a hurricane. Bottom line is that the outhouse is flattened, or in the case of a hurricane, possibly carried away, but the overall “energy” expended during the event is quite different.
Post 78 made on Thursday September 6, 2018 at 09:21
highfigh
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On September 5, 2018 at 23:14, Ernie Gilman said...
Well, thanks, except you still don't see that energy has no time component. Energy expended over time is power, and power has a time component.

edit: fixed typo from when I wrote this on my phone

One definition of Joule is: the energy dissipated as heat when an electric current of one ampere passes through a resistance of one ohm for one second.

Power is Energy/time but energy can't be separated from time- energy can't be expended instantaneously, with a duration of zero time.



I was trying to agree with you in that post but you won't let me.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 79 made on Thursday September 6, 2018 at 11:49
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On September 6, 2018 at 09:21, highfigh said...
One definition of Joule is: the energy dissipated as heat when an electric current of one ampere passes through a resistance of one ohm for one second.

But before you introduce the circuit and time, you have energy. In the world of physics, things are perfect, so charged batteries don't lose their charge. In that world, what is the amount of time of a charged battery? How can you relate time to the charge of a battery AT ALL? The question itself is ludicrous. You can't say a charged battery is, or has, two minutes, or twenty minutes, or any amount of time associated with it.

You must, however, relate time to the charging and discharging of a battery. Those are functions of power, since energy is moved over some period of time.

Power is Energy/time but energy can't be separated from time- energy can't be expended instantaneously, with a duration of zero time.

This is EXACTLY what you're not seeing. Energy is totally separated from time. Energy per second, which is energy with a time element introduced, is power. You're right about that, but somehow you equate energy over time with energy itself.

I was trying to agree with you in that post but you won't let me.

But you keep saying it wrong. Don't agree with me. Agree with physics.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 80 made on Thursday September 6, 2018 at 21:19
highfigh
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On September 6, 2018 at 11:49, Ernie Gilman said...
But before you introduce the circuit and time, you have energy. In the world of physics, things are perfect, so charged batteries don't lose their charge. In that world, what is the amount of time of a charged battery? How can you relate time to the charge of a battery AT ALL? The question itself is ludicrous. You can't say a charged battery is, or has, two minutes, or twenty minutes, or any amount of time associated with it.

You must, however, relate time to the charging and discharging of a battery. Those are functions of power, since energy is moved over some period of time.

This is EXACTLY what you're not seeing. Energy is totally separated from time. Energy per second, which is energy with a time element introduced, is power. You're right about that, but somehow you equate energy over time with energy itself.

But you keep saying it wrong. Don't agree with me. Agree with physics.

Time can pass without movement but movement can’t occur without time being involved. Power is measured or calculated, energy is constant if no losses occur and in that case, the lost energy is changed to heat. Energy minus its losses always balances. I’m not arguing against the idea that power has a relationship with time but you’re denying the relationship between energy and time and the argument about a charged battery is flawed- it didn’t become charged instantaneously, nor can it discharge instantaneously. I’m also not saying energy can’t exist in a static state.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 81 made on Thursday September 6, 2018 at 22:55
davidcasemore
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On September 6, 2018 at 21:19, highfigh said...
Time can pass without movement but movement can’t occur without time being involved.

Those are my thoughts exactly, every time I sit on the toilet.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
OP | Post 82 made on Friday September 7, 2018 at 00:27
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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I believe david has given us a pretty good note (a toot, if you will) to encourage us to stop this.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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