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Topic:
Wired Doorbell with 2 buttons 6 chimes
This thread has 33 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 08:11
highfigh
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On August 9, 2018 at 02:57, Ernie Gilman said...
I was joshing him. Of course he meant the house. Apparently I'm not the only one around here over whose head some things go.

Didn't go over my head, I just didn't think anyone would think something like that. Unless the animals are all miniscule.

Did you see the cows chasing the woman in Florida?

[Link: foxnews.com]
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 17 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 09:51
twmoonly
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Does this house have automation of any type? Speakers throughout? This would be the simplest solution to play the doorbell through the speakers if so. Then you could change volume levels in certain rooms based on time of day and many more options.
Post 18 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 20:15
Mac Burks (39)
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On August 8, 2018 at 22:27, vwpower44 said...
I was meaning that the house is a 1-story house at 27k square feet....so it is very long and expansive. Sorry, we call 1-story houses ranches around here :)

Here too.
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Post 19 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 20:43
Ernie Gilman
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On August 9, 2018 at 08:11, highfigh said...
...Unless the animals are all miniscule.

Minuscule.
That word derives from minuscula, meaning a slightly smaller letter (as in typesetting). (Larger letters are majuscule.) The ideas behind these correspond to major and minor.
Mini derives from miniature, also perhaps from minimum.
Yeah, I know, now look up pedantic.


So let's make some progress: think about the door chime locations. Using relays to, well, relay the switching function, I'll bet you can do this with fewer than six transformers, based on the locations of the door chimes and where the transformers can go. (I've seen Class 2 transformers online in the last two days up to 50 VA, so you can probably put three chimes on a transformer.)

What's the smallest number of transformers you'll need to make this work?
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 20 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 21:54
vwpower44
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Actually found a system from iChime. It has one chime that plays through up to 8 speakers.

https://www.ichime.com/
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 21 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 23:27
Ernie Gilman
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I can see wanting to rip that out three weeks after it goes in. Door chimes are boring and stupid but they rarely are so clever as to drive someone nuts.

I like the duck sound, though.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 22 made on Friday August 10, 2018 at 09:13
highfigh
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On August 9, 2018 at 20:43, Ernie Gilman said...
Minuscule.
That word derives from minuscula, meaning a slightly smaller letter (as in typesetting). (Larger letters are majuscule.) The ideas behind these correspond to major and minor.
Mini derives from miniature, also perhaps from minimum.
Yeah, I know, now look up pedantic.

So let's make some progress: think about the door chime locations. Using relays to, well, relay the switching function, I'll bet you can do this with fewer than six transformers, based on the locations of the door chimes and where the transformers can go. (I've seen Class 2 transformers online in the last two days up to 50 VA, so you can probably put three chimes on a transformer.)

What's the smallest number of transformers you'll need to make this work?

I know what 'pedantic' means. Do you prefer this definition?

"Being showy of one’s knowledge, often in a boring manner."


I also know that 'miniscule' has more than one definition but I don't need to be pedantic.


I think it's time to determine which chimes will be used, so a current test can be performed. What's the point of choosing transformers before the chimes?

Many transformers will handle two chimes (depending on the chime, of course), so if two are connected to each transformer, three will be needed for six chimes. The buttons, OTOH, may need to latch a relay, but that's not a big deal.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 23 made on Friday August 10, 2018 at 11:17
buzz
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But, we haven't yet decided on the type of wiring, if any, will be used. If this will be a fully wireless system, the "transformers", if any, might turn into local (to the chimes) modular power supplies.
Post 24 made on Friday August 10, 2018 at 12:11
Ernie Gilman
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On August 10, 2018 at 09:13, highfigh said...
I also know that 'miniscule' has more than one definition but I don't need to be pedantic.

"Miniscule" has only one definition: a misspelling of "minuscule." You didn't understand that?
I think it's time to determine which chimes will be used, so a current test can be performed. What's the point of choosing transformers before the chimes?

You're totally correct.

The transformer comment was info as to what transformers might be available. If, for instance, only 20 VA transformers were available, then it might not be possible to design a wiring scheme where a transformer powers more than one chime.
Many transformers will handle two chimes (depending on the chime, of course),

Depending also on the wire length and gauge.
so if two are connected to each transformer, three will be needed for six chimes. The buttons, OTOH, may need to latch a relay, but that's not a big deal.

The relays will never latch, since latching means switching and staying in the switched state. Any relays used in this will be set up to close momentarily.

Actually, we're all blowing air until the original poster does some things. Respond to the questions about possible layout and wiring distance, for instance.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 25 made on Saturday August 11, 2018 at 09:26
highfigh
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On August 10, 2018 at 12:11, Ernie Gilman said...
"Miniscule" has only one definition: a misspelling of "minuscule." You didn't understand that?

But this link shows that 52% of people who use the word, use 'miniscule', so majority wins, right? :D

You're totally correct.

The transformer comment was info as to what transformers might be available. If, for instance, only 20 VA transformers were available, then it might not be possible to design a wiring scheme where a transformer powers more than one chime.

And that would be OK, if only 20VA transformers were available but since that's not true, we don't really need to worry about it- we just need to find a transformer that can handle more chimes. A good place to look would be transformer manufacturers- maybe they sell tapped transformers for this purpose.

Depending also on the wire length and gauge.

Not that it's an unnecessary detail, but I think that point is moot since we're aware that the wire length can't be excessive and that best practice would be to locate the transformers so the wires to the chimes is as short as possible. Since the load won't be particularly heavy, the J-box for the transformer power with 120VAC can be centrally located. Hopefully, the design of the house will allow for this location.

The relays will never latch, since latching means switching and staying in the switched state. Any relays used in this will be set up to close momentarily.

I guess 'closed' would be a better word. The relays need to be momentary with sufficient current capacity, for this application. However, it's easy enough to make momentary relays latch, but it requires another switch to break the circuit unless the switch is the On/Off type and that's not what this project requires.

Side note- if you ever need a cheap buzzer and only have a Bosch-type relay and a >2Amp DC power supply, you can connect +12VDC to both terminals of the coil (tabs 85 and 86), through a switch. It won't last long, but it does work. Those relays can be made to 'latch' too, but it does require a way to break the circuit for the coil. (just in case you decide to install a kill switch in a car or something similar)
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 26 made on Saturday August 11, 2018 at 11:22
Ernie Gilman
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On August 11, 2018 at 09:26, highfigh said...
But this link shows that 52% of people who use the word, use 'miniscule', so majority wins, right? :D

That statement hardly supports any position at all since you didn't provide a link. And no.

Not that it's an unnecessary detail, but I think that point is moot since we're aware that the wire length can't be excessive and that best practice would be to locate the transformers so the wires to the chimes is as short as possible.

None of these details are moot if you want to design something. Most of them are moot if you want to throw things together and hope.

Since the load won't be particularly heavy, the J-box for the transformer power with 120VAC can be centrally located. Hopefully, the design of the house will allow for this location.

The load might be heavy for a doorbell transformer. You're generalizing about something that has to be specific.

You're also not using the plural to name your locations, so you're assuming that one transformer location and probably one transformer is all that will be needed. During my search for parts at the start of this adventure, I only found transformers that output as much as 50VA. That's not enough for six doorbells, so if those are the largest available transformers, it can't be done with one transformer. This means relays MUST be used to separate AC secondary circuits or transformers must put in parallel (which is not a good idea).

An advantage of using relays is that the actual AC secondary wiring can be shorter than it would be if there were only one transformer location.

Last edited by Ernie Gilman on August 11, 2018 14:35.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 27 made on Saturday August 11, 2018 at 23:25
Ernie Gilman
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Don't worry about electrical current. Just worry about animosity.





A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 28 made on Sunday August 12, 2018 at 08:42
vwpower44
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The iChime sees teh voltage from closing the contact when the button is pressed. It then plays a chime sound. We are going to wire in 6-7 speakers that will plug into the iChime unit and use an Elk paging amp to power up the speakers.
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 29 made on Sunday August 12, 2018 at 09:59
highfigh
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On August 11, 2018 at 11:22, Ernie Gilman said...
That statement hardly supports any position at all since you didn't provide a link. And no.

None of these details are moot if you want to design something. Most of them are moot if you want to throw things together and hope.

The load might be heavy for a doorbell transformer. You're generalizing about something that has to be specific.

You're also not using the plural to name your locations, so you're assuming that one transformer location and probably one transformer is all that will be needed. During my search for parts at the start of this adventure, I only found transformers that output as much as 50VA. That's not enough for six doorbells, so if those are the largest available transformers, it can't be done with one transformer. This means relays MUST be used to separate AC secondary circuits or transformers must put in parallel (which is not a good idea).

An advantage of using relays is that the actual AC secondary wiring can be shorter than it would be if there were only one transformer location.

By 'location', I meant house.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 30 made on Sunday August 12, 2018 at 10:00
highfigh
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On August 11, 2018 at 23:25, Ernie Gilman said...
Don't worry about electrical current. Just worry about animosity.




It would handle ding AND dong.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
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