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Topic:
Wired Doorbell with 2 buttons 6 chimes
This thread has 33 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 09:10
vwpower44
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I have a client with a 27,000 square foot ranch...i know big for a ranch. Is there a system or way that I can put in 6 chimes on 1 transformer with 2 buttons? Does a system exist that will allow me to do this. I have done two chimes before which just required a larger transformer. Having 6 chimes I will probably need 3 transformers to power up the chimes. Obviously, I don't want the power from 1 transformer to go to the other two transformers when the button is pressed. I looked online, and several people have done similar things by putting in switching diodes, switching transistors, etc. Does anyone have an idea on how to do something like this? Wireless doorbells are out of the question due to the size of the house, and all of the walls are plaster of metal lathe.
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 2 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 11:03
cma
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You can always isolate the additional chimes with contact closure relays. The door button activates the relays, the relays activate the chimes.
Post 3 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 11:04
King of typos
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I’ll too be afraid of voltage loss over the vast distance. I would install Romex 14/2 from the first transformer and tie it into the 120VAC. But switch it with the output of the first transformer. Use a relay from the first transformer to power the 14/2. Then just wire the output of the downstream transformers directly to the chimes.

When the door switch is pressed. It will chime the first one and the others at the same time.

KOT
Post 4 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 12:32
RyeGuy
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You may have thought of this already, but houses that large usually have a doorbell that's linked into the landline phone system so it rings through the house and also so you can let the person at the door know you'll be a while. Only a couple hundred $ assuming they still use landline phones.
Post 5 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 13:22
Ernie Gilman
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On August 8, 2018 at 09:10, vwpower44 said...
I have a client with a 27,000 square foot ranch...i know big for a ranch.

Not really. A friend of mine has a ranch that's at least twenty acres. It all depends on how big the actual house is.

Now let's get serious.

Is there a system or way that I can put in 6 chimes on 1 transformer with 2 buttons?

We need to clarify the requirement. You need 6 chimes to ring. There will be two buttons to make them ring. Do you somehow also require that only one transformer powers this whole thing? I doubt it.

I've just spent twenty minutes looking into this and the number of choices make this too much just for a post, even for an Ernie post.

Here are the deals:
Doorbells are Class 2 devices. That means the power supply can be shorted out anywhere in the house and there will be no fire. This limits the amount of current you can use as well as the type of transformer you can use.

There will be voltage drop on the wire. The length of the wire is more important than the area of the house (and whether you daisy-chain them -- avoid that), though voltage drop on 14 gauge will probably take care of that issue.

I'd put in up to six separate doorbell supplies (depends on layout and how many doorbells you can ring with one supply) with a relay near each one. All the relays are switched at the same time by the doorbell button. This wiring also must survive a dead short without a fire. Preferably it must survive a dead short without the power source dying, too, so you'd never have to replace that.

You have to choose between AC relays and DC relays. DC relays can/may draw less current, but require power supplies, diodes across the relays, and wiring polarity must be maintained, which is not needed with AC power. AC is simpler but has its own drawbacks.

And presumably this is actually two systems, one for the front door sound, usually ding dong, and one for the back door sound usually ding.


As a design note, you can turn a stiff high amperage DC power supply, the one used for the relays here, into a "Class 2-ish" supply with one resistor. You take the output of the power supply and put it through a resistor of a value that drops its output to a couple of volts with the load you have. The resistor's wattage and mounting situation must be chosen so it stays medium cool, for instance a 20 watt resistor that's dissipating 2 watts. This means math for each supply like this.

The output of that resistor goes to a capacitor, say 47,000 mfd, maybe as much as ten times that. You have to experiment. That cap stores enough energy for one or two good button pushes, but if the current is drawn too long (long button push or shorted wires). the output drops to a couple of volts. Because of the wattage of the resistor and the way you've mounted it, there's no fire.

Anything more than this takes too much time for a post. But this is completely doable.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 6 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 13:29
buzz
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Are the wires in place? Do you have easy access to power at the chime locations? Do you need a 100% no wire install or could you run wires in a crawl space or attic part of the way? Depending on your comfort zone, you could rework some inexpensive wireless doorbells to interface with wires run in the attic or crawl space.

Could you work with RING?

Another scheme could use Zigbee buttons or radio control buttons that might be used for popup cabinets, projectors, fireplaces, and such to avoid all or most of the wire.

Use whatever technologies you are comfortable with.

As others have suggested, take care to account for current draw and voltage drop in long wire runs.
Post 7 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 13:54
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Also, be merciful to the handyman who might be called on to solve a problem with such a system. Or, yourself in two years. DOCUMENT IT.

Write up what the different parts are for. Be clear. Use full sentences. Assume the person reading this cannot read your mind. Make a schematic. Note the little twitchy things you had to be aware of. When you're done, pretend six months or a year have passed, then look at the documentation and add any thoughts that come to you during that review.

Seriously. This is not a difficult system but it's way different from PODs (Plain Old Doorbells). You don't want hatred directed at you while a service person tells your client you were an idiot for making such a bastard system. A manual will make it legitimate!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 8 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 15:53
Fred Harding
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Phone system. NS700 would do great. Intercom functionality, door box ability, messaging capability.

it's a 27,000 foot house, for goodness sake.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 9 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 18:01
highfigh
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On August 8, 2018 at 13:22, Ernie Gilman said...
Not really. A friend of mine has a ranch that's at least twenty acres. It all depends on how big the actual house is.

Now let's get serious.

Yes, let’s. Nobody would call a 27K sq ft lot a ‘ranch’. That’s about 6/10 of an acre.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 10 made on Wednesday August 8, 2018 at 22:27
vwpower44
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On August 8, 2018 at 18:01, highfigh said...
Yes, let’s. Nobody would call a 27K sq ft lot a ‘ranch’. That’s about 6/10 of an acre.

I was meaning that the house is a 1-story house at 27k square feet....so it is very long and expansive. Sorry, we call 1-story houses ranches around here :)
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 11 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 02:57
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On August 8, 2018 at 18:01, highfigh said...
Yes, let’s. Nobody would call a 27K sq ft lot a ‘ranch’. That’s about 6/10 of an acre.

I was joshing him. Of course he meant the house. Apparently I'm not the only one around here over whose head some things go.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 12 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 04:24
King of typos
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On August 8, 2018 at 22:27, vwpower44 said...
I was meaning that the house is a 1-story house at 27k square feet....so it is very long and expansive. Sorry, we call 1-story houses ranches around here :)

A one story house that is 27,000 square feet? Wtf?!?!

KOT
Post 13 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 07:00
buzz
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Post 14 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 07:14
Ranger Home
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On August 9, 2018 at 07:00, buzz said...

LOL. Thats funny right there.
Post 15 made on Thursday August 9, 2018 at 08:08
highfigh
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On August 8, 2018 at 09:10, vwpower44 said...
I have a client with a 27,000 square foot ranch...i know big for a ranch. Is there a system or way that I can put in 6 chimes on 1 transformer with 2 buttons? Does a system exist that will allow me to do this. I have done two chimes before which just required a larger transformer. Having 6 chimes I will probably need 3 transformers to power up the chimes. Obviously, I don't want the power from 1 transformer to go to the other two transformers when the button is pressed. I looked online, and several people have done similar things by putting in switching diodes, switching transistors, etc. Does anyone have an idea on how to do something like this? Wireless doorbells are out of the question due to the size of the house, and all of the walls are plaster of metal lathe.

If the house's floor plan was a circle, the farthest point from the center would be a little more than 164'. I'm not sure heavy gauge wire is really needed unless they expect someone to press the button for extended periods of time and in that case, it should be fused.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
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