About to rant, so feel free to skip if you're not up for it.

About 9 months ago, I bought a Klein Scout network tester. Just a simple $250AUD pair tester that lets me know that my terminations are good, if there's any crossovers, bad pairs, voltage.. ...you all know what they do.

[Link: kleintools.com]

This unit is definitely also SUPPOSED to have a tone function. Only problem is that when I use my analogue wand with it, all I hear is a faint splatter/crackling sound. Definitely not any of the advertised tones that this thing is supposed to generate.

I took it back to my supplier and we tested it along side another unit off the shelf, which appeared to have the same fault. We then grabbed one of the bigger and more expensive "Commander" units, which is basically a rebranded Net-Prowler, and tested my wand with it. Worked perfectly.

Supplier told me they'd follow it up with Klein and find some resolution.

A couple of months go by, and no news.

I call my supplier and ask them what is going on. They tell me Klein won't respond to their emails as they are no longer the national distributor. So, I email Klein themselves and they promptly direct me to our new Australian distributor, Mumme Tools. I email them and their rep contacts me. I tell him the whole story and he says "No problem. I'll talk to my manager and get it sorted for you in a couple of days".

3 weeks fly by and nothing, so I call him back. He tells me that he spoke to my original supplier and they all agreed that it was best for them take care of it as they're who I bought it from. I call the owner of that business and he tells me teh exact opposite and that the NEW distributor was going to sort it.

I tell them I don't give a a rat's @$$ who sorts it out; It has been over six months and I just need a toner/tester that works.

A few more weeks pass by and still nothing.

I call my supplier and he offers to make amends with some other items as neither Klein HQ, nor their Australian distributor are either responding to any contact, or agreeing to offer any help. I call a truce with my guys and we work out a deal, and all's ok-ish between myself and them. But I still have a non-functional toner.

I then proceeded to email my original contact at Klein who is the "Internatioal Customer Service Supervisor" explaining what had happened throughout this whole ordeal and asked what they're stance was on what had happened and if they were going to offer me any form of solution, and again, after over a week of waiting...

...nothing.

Is this normal of these manufacturers?

Has anybody else had dealings similar to this with them or any others?

I mean, I get that it's only a $250 item, but at the same time, IT'S only a $250 ITEM!!

Why is this so hard to get any sort of positive resolution from Klein? I was told by people from the USA/Canada that they were an excellent company but this looks like they just want people with issues like mine, to go away.

I'll close with a link to their company values...

[Link: kleintools.com]

Rant over. :(

Your rant is valid! There’s so many things wrong with the market place these days.

First we live in a world now where everyhing is someone else’s fault/responsibility. “No problem, I’ll take care of you (by passing it off to someone else - and the hot potatoes game starts)

Second we live in a world where consumers (us/me included) by most/many things on line and only ever come out from under a rock to complain. This does not breed a market place where good customer revive is appreciated. It breeds one where products are cheep. So manufactures have less incentive to offer good customer service.

This is all based on my own feelings and absolutely zero research.

I think our only real recourse in these situations is to buy something/somewhere else. Send all of those people an email telling them that you are firing them and will buy other products from other places. They won’t reply, but if enough people do it maybe they’ll change.

Craig

This is why I buy things from big box stores and Amazon. If it doesn't work...return it. Done.

Your original disty should have said "looks like these things all suck, here's a refund...I'm sending this crap back". He could have been the hero but Instead he let his problem be yours.

I bought a Nissan in 2015. A month later it needed a new engine. They drug it out for months. Eventually after enough complaining I got them to give me a new car. That's what should have happened in the first place. They should have given me a working new car and dealt with the engine issue on their own time/dime. In the end I got the new car...they got the lemon...but now I'm angry instead of happy so no more Nissan's.

So, I have a question.  Is the toner also a Klein?  The reason I ask, is I've had many "fox and hounds" in my day.

Sometimes, I'd find myself with a mismatch on a jobsite...Say a Klein toner and a different manufacturers wand.  When using it like that, the tone would be exactly as you describe.  Weak, crackling, etc.

When properly matched by manufacturer, the tone was always loud and clear.

Don't ask me why, that's above my paygrade. 

To some extent it's a race to the bottom. Purchasing customers want the absolute lowest price. By squeezing out deluxe customer service, prices can be lowered. This is great until someone needs customer service.

If companies view customer service as a marketing function, rather than a simple expense, the customer (and the company) make out better. For lower priced products (and $250 is low priced) it is cheaper for the company to abandon a few, rather than spend more than $250 haggling with the customer over some fine point.

That said, some customers abuse the goodwill of the merchant. "I can always send it back" is the attitude.

It is ironic that we want to support our local distributor, rather than buy something on Amazon. Then, we find out when push comes to shove, Amazon would have been a better choice. Sad, indeed.

Customers wanting the lowest price doesn't change what things cost. It may change what companies charge for things because of their greed and need to compete with other companies but the consumer has absolutely ZERO ability to change the price of something. If you think otherwise go try and get an iMac at a discounted price.

Perfect capitalism forces the merchants to operate at the point of starvation -- thus providing the customer with the lowest price. If a particular merchant is perceived as making too much profit, another merchant will seize the opportunity and provide a product at a slightly lower price. This behavior drives merchants to enter and leave the market at the point of equilibrium (starvation).

Unless -- superior marketing changes customer perception or a superior manufacturing process lowers costs for a particular merchant. This is why patents and trade secrets are so important.

Edit: From my Eco 101: "Merchant" is anyone providing a product. There is not much distinction between retail, wholesale, manufacturing, farming, etc. The fundamental assumption is that no single "Merchant" is in a monopoly position, able to control the final price. Apple is not able to set the price for computers as a general category, but it can set the price for its own brand. PC's are a prime example of market pricing. For a brief period IBM was the big player, but other companies showed that they could provide similar results at a lower price. The consumer won, IBM got bored and left the market.

Try taking a Klein handtool back to a store for a warranty exchange. Depending on the person, they will not exchange it because it no longer says “Lifetime Warranty” on the new packaging.

But it’s still lifetime warranty... you just have to go through Klein themselves. Or be lucky and find a person who doesn’t ask.

KOT

This is the overlooked fact:

Read the first post again. The testing was not complete.

Robbie's wand did not work with the first unit he had. Then it did not work with the second unit that he tried, at the store. He concluded that all the units were defective. Equally valid would be that all of that model wand would not work with all of that model toner.

The final test would have been to try a Klein wand with the Klein toner, but that wasn't done.

Klein were jerks not to respond, but their response should have been "We do not guarantee that our product will work with products of any other brand."

Sounds norm today. I will add. Just recently I contacted a company to locate a dealer that stocks a particular item. The companies response was. Visit our website and do a search. How do you think I contacted the company? Through the website. The website con not provide detailed information like that. Just the hundreds of dealers. Of course as you go through the list and check them out they all sell it. But have to order it or just claim they offer it. Brand by the way is Rustoleum.

Firstly, thanks for all your responses. :)

As per my initial post...


If would be fair to assume that their units are designed to emit the same style of tone so as to work with any of their own wands. My wand worked perfectly with the Klein Commander; Why would it not work with their other unit?

Their own website states that their wand "Works with many other manufacturers' analog tone generators", so I'm confident that my TopTronic would qualify, being possibly the most generic and common toner set on the planet.



My wand will pick up radio stations in the right environment, as well as speaker and line level signals. I've used it on the end of plenty of other generators including other Klein Commanders and the Fluke CableIQ.

Their own "Tone cube" appears to be nothing more than a re-branded generic toner that we've all seen or used at some time.



At the end of the day, I think any reasonable person would have to agree that we covered all bases when it came to condemning this thing. I find it hard to believe that my wand will pick-up pretty much any toner signal, with the exception of Klein's cheapest unit, while it perfectly picks up their flagship model.

Anyway... ...anybody have any recommendations for a replacement?

I'm considering a CableIQ, but $$$!!! (to the tune of $2500 - $3000AUD) and at present, I don't really have a need to qualify cables.

Other than a Net-Prowler, are there any others that you fine gents would recommend??

This statement cannot be taken to mean anything at all about any other brand.

The answer to that is in what you take as kind of a guarantee:

Wait: I think I've lost the plot. You're saying that your wand did not work with one of their toners, and you're taking their statement about their wand's capabilities to be a statement about your wand's likely capabilities. Nope.
Plus, again speaking about their wand (which says nothing about your wand),
| Their own website states that their wand "Doesn't work with some other manufacturers' analog tone generators",
Sorry I rewrote it, but that IS what it says.

Instead of all this verbal back and forth, you should have tested the toner you think is defective with their wand. That's what they presumably promise will work.

The testing you did is similar to toning out wires .... say you've got six wires here and six wires a hundred feet away... you test five and say "the other one must be the sixth wire." I'm here to tell you that's not true.

Sorry I rewrote it, but that IS what it says.

Where did you read that?

[img][/img]

Look, Ernie, we all know that you're pretty knowledgeable in these areas, but I can't help but see evidence of some kind of mental gymnastics being performed here to punch holes in my complaint.

If you could take the time, would you care to offer some possibilities that would stop an analogue tone probe from detecting or "hearing" an analogue signal that is designed to work with ONE type of analogue probe, but not another?

Or what differences Klein may employ in their various tone generator products that would stop certain analogue tones from being detected by some wands when used with some models, but not others? As in, they use one type of tone to work with their ProbePlus probe in one unit (the Scout Pro, for instance), and another entirely different tone for use with THE EXACT SAME PROBE, in their other unit (the Commander)? Because outside of the suspected fault that we demonstrated on the test bench, that could be the only explanation.

Are you perhaps suggesting that they are using some kind of selective analogue frequency blocking/trapping technology that stops their devices from emitting a tone that is detectable by certain other manufacturers analogue probes when used with their entry-level unit, but not their flagship model? And that they have selectively chosen, at multiple levels, NOT to point this out to a customer who is experiencing difficulty with one of their products? Because it seems that that's what you're indicating towards. A bit of a stretch, by any means.

Or, do you think that just maybe, there are a handful of these units kicking around that may have a fault and Klein aren't interested in dealing with it?

If I could be @$$ed buying a Klein product ever again, I'd be happy to go out and get one of their wands and make a demonstration video just so we can all sleep better at night, but that would involve giving this company more of my money, which I'm just not interested in doing.

I simply think you didn't test everything well enough to conclude that the Klein product was bad. When a second one was 'bad' in the same way, that should have made you check EVERYTHING, including using a Klein wand.

It didn't help that you started citing what Klein says about their wands. That has zero relationship to the performance of your wand.