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Topic:
Sonos has filed to go public....
This thread has 95 replies. Displaying posts 61 through 75.
Post 61 made on Tuesday July 24, 2018 at 21:23
Jstrick
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On July 18, 2018 at 19:15, g007 said...
To all

My concern for Sonos would be the reliability of the device, does it do what they say. Does Alexa function as we expect it to, or is iffy or worse halfway, which is noway! How about the network aspect of Sonos devices! They are suppose to be the best at this particular niche as it relates to whole house audio! Does the reality bear this out!

I do not own one but I decided to checkout the Sonos site and read the reviews.
Well... out of approximately 3200 reviews of the Sonos voice controlled speaker about 200 said the device would not work. Alexa could not understand the voice commands or failed to respond at all. Worse the units could not stay connected! The reviews seem to say, not ready for prime time. 200 bad reviews does not bode well, 6.25% is way to many, .1% would be more acceptable. These two problems seem to be present with the Play speakers and the Sonos 1.

Anybody have direct experience?

OK 200/3200 is 6.25%, but that where the sensible part of your post ends.

Upon what basis could you possibly conclude that the frequency of *anything meaningful* regarding SONOS is 6.25%? Do you think that 3200 is representative sample of anything? It is not. What proportion of SONOS users who do not have any problems are likely to bother logging in and posting that they have not had any problems? And how does that proportion compare to that for users who DO experience a problem.

I note that you later post "It is the 6.5% of products that do not "work fine" that's the issue!"

WRONG! That 6.5%, what ever it actually is, is NOT a statistic saying that 6.5% of products do not "work fine". You have to apply some common sense here and realize how these reviews come to be recorded. They are not valid statistical samples of anything.

And so, pray tell, how do you come up with the magic 0.1% as an acceptable proportion? Take a look at Amazon reviews for *any* quality device. If they have enough real responses (ie not just a handfull), you will see that they all have 1 star ratings at rates that far exceed your 0.1% threshold. So either *all* consumer electronics have unacceptable user experience rates or your idea of meaningful metrics if *far* off the mark.

So are user reviews meaningless? No, they do provide some suggestion of general failure modes and, in extreme cases, some measure of reliability (like if there are more negative than positive reviews). But your simplistic interpretation is simply WRONG.

FWIW, both Alexa in general and SONOS support for Alexa services are in their infancy, even in the context of high tech electronics. In my experience with SONOS (end user not installer), I never cease to be amazed by how well the periodic firmware and app updates are handled. Like never had a single problem in ~10 years of ownership. Which is not to say I'm always pleased by the constant changes in interface. The issues I have encountered have related to microwave oven interference and marginal wireless mesh in some areas. This will likely be completely eliminated when I add some hardwired ethernet connections to some far-flung units so that wireless connections are more robust across the non-wired units.
Post 62 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 00:08
SOUND.SD
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Now the need to create an amount makes sense. That's how corporate monetizes today, consumer data. Wouldn't be surprised at all if this was a play for a valuation and buy out.
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 63 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 02:35
g007
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Jstrick

Read my other posts as it relates the statistical validity of the sample reviews.

As to the .1% failure rate, this translate to one out of a thousand. If you are making millions, even this is way to large, that is 1000 failures per million. NOT GOOD AT ALL. Would you accept this failure rate for a drug, or medical device, or building construction, auto tires, i think not!
Post 64 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 02:59
Ernie Gilman
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On July 25, 2018 at 02:35, g007 said...
Jstrick

Read my other posts as it relates the statistical validity of the sample reviews.

As to the .1% failure rate, this translate to one out of a thousand.

Or one out of 250 if you're talking vehicles with tires. One out of 125... spiders. Every millipede.

And DEFINITELY a larger percentage of people who experience failures will complain than people who do not experience failures will log in to give an attaboy.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 65 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 07:28
MediaImageAV
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Sonos knows what their failure rate is. You think you know what their failure rate is. Big difference.

Sonos knows what failure rate is acceptable to remain profitable. You think you know what failure rate is acceptable for Sonos to remain profitable. Another big difference.

On July 25, 2018 at 02:35, g007 said...
Jstrick

Read my other posts as it relates the statistical validity of the sample reviews.

As to the .1% failure rate, this translate to one out of a thousand. If you are making millions, even this is way to large, that is 1000 failures per million. NOT GOOD AT ALL. Would you accept this failure rate for a drug, or medical device, or building construction, auto tires, i think not!
Post 66 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 07:59
Hasbeen
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On July 25, 2018 at 02:35, g007 said...
Jstrick

Read my other posts as it relates the statistical validity of the sample reviews.

As to the .1% failure rate, this translate to one out of a thousand. If you are making millions, even this is way to large, that is 1000 failures per million. NOT GOOD AT ALL. Would you accept this failure rate for a drug, or medical device, or building construction, auto tires, i think not!

I've gotta step in here because you're driving me crazy.  You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  The guys who pay their mortgages with this equipment take it pretty seriously.  If equipment is prone to failure, they don't use it because it not only costs them money, it may also hurt their reputation.

They also have a complete understanding of what an equipment failure is, and what it's not.  I'd imagine collectively this group has made millions of dollars by walking in and pressing the power button on a remote for a TV or home theater system that the customer claimed was a piece of garbage, your work is shit, you should be out of business, blah blah blah...In the end, it's user error..


There are plenty of guys on this forum who don't like Sonos for any number of reasons.  The failure rate isn't one of them. In fact, I've never seen the failure rate discussed on this forum a single time.  And this forum discusses everything.

I recommend you use one of the "Sonos Killer" brands out there.  Other companies have been making their versions for years...They're called "Sonos Killers" because they're like Sonos....but better! So, so much better.
Post 67 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 09:31
roddymcg
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So am I getting the gist of this thread; Sonos bad, Netgear good?

If so this is some funny shit!!
When good enough is not good enough.
Post 68 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 16:00
Jstrick
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On July 25, 2018 at 02:35, g007 said...
Jstrick

Read my other posts as it relates the statistical validity of the sample reviews.

As to the .1% failure rate, this translate to one out of a thousand. If you are making millions, even this is way to large, that is 1000 failures per million. NOT GOOD AT ALL. Would you accept this failure rate for a drug, or medical device, or building construction, auto tires, i think not!

g007,
So what is the deal? I really don't care whether you like SONOS or not. And I could respect your citation of personal (bad or good) experiences as valid inputs. But you have NO personal experience with SONOS equipment.

So you are just spouting NONSENSE. And it's not even clever or humerous. OF COURSE a true failure rate of 0.1% is unacceptable for expensive audio componentry. And SONOS has been pretty successful for a decade. So you do the math.

Q: How can SONOS stay in business with an (alleged by you) astronomical failure rate of 6.25%? Or even 0.1%?
A: They couldn't possibly.

Conclusion: But SONOS IS STILL IN BUSINESS. So the INESCAPABLE conclusion is that the failure rate CAN'T POSSIBLY BE 6.25%. And, by your own clever logic, it can't even be 0.1% now can it? Else ALL we'd be talking about would be our terrible experiences with SONOS. But the fact is, we're not. Sure, neither SONOS the company nor their equipment is PERFECT. But both are very high quality and their reputation reflects that reality.

So until and unless you bring some direct SONOS experience or some valid interpretation of other data to this discussion, your contributions on this topic are WORSE THAN USELESS. You are drawing unwarranted and unsupported negative conclusions.

I post all this not to try to change your mind, we can all see that you will not respond to logical debate. I only post to try to set the record straight(er) for those who have the MISFORTUNE to stumble upon YOUR WRONG OPINIONS regarding SONOS contained in this thread. Opinions you've drawn from your DEEPLY FLAWED interpretation of review statistics.

So please go purchase some other gear that has less than 0.1% negative reviews for their wonderful equipment. Then post links for that quality gear and share your personal experiences so we can see (and hear) what we've all been missing...
Post 69 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 16:07
g007
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MediaImageAV

You can take it to the bank (IPO) that Sonos knows what their failure rates are. It is a critical part of the manufacturing process. I will bet a steak dinner that the rate is CONSIDERABLY below .1%.
Post 70 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 16:48
g007
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Jstrick

Exactly no experience, never purchased the product! This is trip down inferential statistics AND THE CONSIDERABLE POWER THAT IT HAS. It perfectly clear that Sonos does not have a failure rate of 6.5%, or .1% for that matter, commons sense would tell you that! Actually a failure rate of .1% for most manufactured products is far to high!

I alleged nothing! My knowledge of Inferential statistics is quite good! Inferential statistics does not give opinions, it draws conclusions from sampled data, in this case a very limited data set! More data better conclusions!

What I like or do not like is irrelevant. Sorry did not know we had to be clever or funny.

As a side light, during WW2 the US Army wanted to know how many Tiger tanks the Germans had produced. So they asked to see the ones that were captured or destroyed. By the simple use of Inferential statistics and the few serial numbers of the tanks, their examination revealed to within 5 tanks the actual number produced!!
Post 71 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 16:54
g007
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roddymcg

Definitely not, Sonos and Netgear are good.
Post 72 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 17:35
Hasbeen
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Do you guys think g007 and Ernie might be related? 
Post 73 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 17:40
goldenzrule
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On July 25, 2018 at 17:35, Hasbeen said...
Do you guys think g007 and Ernie might be related?

Was JUST thinking the same thing
Post 74 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 22:57
g007
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Hasbeen, goldenzrule

I am honored to be related to Ernie!!! Thanks for love.

I think we beat this thing to death! Onward to better things!
Post 75 made on Wednesday July 25, 2018 at 23:37
tomciara
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On July 25, 2018 at 16:07, g007 said...
MediaImageAV

You can take it to the bank (IPO) that Sonos knows what their failure rates are. It is a critical part of the manufacturing process. I will bet a steak dinner that the rate is CONSIDERABLY below .1%.

You might be buying the steak. Before I became an installer, I was a warranty service center for about 25 brands of consumer electronics. Many of those brands would have been happy to be under 1%, and .1% was just a dream for many of them.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
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